motion to modify? Voluntary changes

[angeleyzad]

What is the name of your state? Maine ...sorry for the long post....

We have 2 kids, now ages 5 & 7. Divorce was final in 2001, had a modification shortly thereafter due to ex getting fired and moving from ME to NH. We also established visitations for school vacations and summer break. He asked for majority of summer, with me EOW or something like that, I asked that he get 2 weeks in summer (knowing that I would go to 4 weeks, which I offered him out of court). The judge ordered him to have 4 weeks in summer, no more than 2 weeks at a time. We also alternate all other major holidays, except Christmas, which is set every year, due to our family traditions (I get every X-mas eve and morning, he gets noon X-mas day to noon on 27th).

Okay, here's the deal...Ex is asking me to change our entire schedule - he is stating that he has had a major change in circumstances, so he wants to revise our divorce judgment. He sent me a letter asking for all kinds of things - more visitation, tax exemptions (which we had both asked for, and the judge assigned them to me with him having the option to purchase them from me), he now wants to change the weekend schedule because of his work schedule (no longer wants every other weekend, he wants like 1st and 4th one month, 2nd and 3rd next month because of his work schedule), he wants 6 weeks in summer now, also wants to fully alternate Christmas holiday. He is stating that his change in circumstances is because he moved another 2 hours away from us to be closer to his girlfriend. She cannot relocate because of her daughter. My ex found a new job close to her, which has put his traveling for visitation from 2 hours to 4+ hours each way. I responded to the letter, and I know that he is going to file to modify because I did not give in tohis requests.

And for those of you that are going to say that I am bitter because he is moving on, I am not - I have been happily remarried for going on 4 years now, with a new sibling to my 2 sons, and I am happy that my ex is moving on with his life - especially since he has tried on numerous occasions to get me to take him back since the divorce. I am truly happy for him.

My problem is this - I know that modifications can be made if there is a major change of circumstances - but what regulations are there for it? This change that he has had is voluntary on his part - he was actually supposed to move closer to our sons according to our divorce, but he has always moved further away. I never made an issue about it because he was originally from NH, and that is where his family is. Now he has moved to VT, which is where the new GF is. He already has a reduction in child support for his traveling, I am not denying him the reduction, but I do not think that it would be fair that he could keep moving further away and keep getting bigger reductions (which takes away from what the kids have at home). He is also asking me to meet him half way for his visitations. As of now, he does all the traveling. It would be one thing if he lived close to me (I have been within 20 miles of my original residence), but is it logical that he would move further and further away and I would have to take on some of that burden? He has already moved 3 times, further away each time, and he has always been responsible for the traveling. I know that he can ask for modification of child support every 3 years, but it seems that would be the only thing that could be up for modification.

So here are my questions (I know I kind of asked above, but I will ask here to set them apart)
(1) Would a voluntary change in employment (with virtually the same income as before) be a basis for a modification due to major change in circumstances? (I could see if his job moved him, but he sought out this job in a new location)
(2) Could I be forced to meet half-way because of his voluntary location change? I don't think it should be my responsibility because he changed jobs and locations.
(3) What is the likelihood that we would have to alternate the Christmas holiday? I do not want to go every other year, or even alternating X-mas eve/X-mas day, as that would mean that the kids loose out every other year in the family traditions.
(4) What is the likelihood that he would get the tax exemptions? The judge had ordered that I get them before, and he could purchase them from me. He has not been able to yet because of an arrearage in child support, which will most likely be another year and a half before that is cleared up.

I will probably have to get a lawyer before all of this is said and done, I would just like some insight on this. It seems that what he is asking me for is pretty ridiculous, as it was his own doing that created these issues for him, now he wants me to pay for it. He is also asking in the letter (and subsequent modification) everything that he asked for in our divorce that the judge denied him.

Any insight from any of you would be great.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Any insight from any of you would be great.

A: Cut this in half, leave out the editorial comments, and ask three questions.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

OR.....

rename it "War and Divorce" and send it to Simon and Schuster.

 

[NotSoNew]

So here are my questions (I know I kind of asked above, but I will ask here to set them apart)
(1) Would a voluntary change in employment (with virtually the same income as before) be a basis for a modification due to major change in circumstances? (I could see if his job moved him, but he sought out this job in a new location)
(2) Could I be forced to meet half-way because of his voluntary location change? I don't think it should be my responsibility because he changed jobs and locations.
(3) What is the likelihood that we would have to alternate the Christmas holiday? I do not want to go every other year, or even alternating X-mas eve/X-mas day, as that would mean that the kids loose out every other year in the family traditions.
(4) What is the likelihood that he would get the tax exemptions? The judge had ordered that I get them before, and he could purchase them from me. He has not been able to yet because of an arrearage in child support, which will most likely be another year and a half before that is cleared up.


Any insight from any of you would be great.

what, i didnt think it was that long you guys!

1. a change in job and time available is reason enough to request a change, it certainly does not matter if it was voluntary or not. we arent talking about him requesting a change in child support.
2. Yes you could be, it really depends on the judge you get. Some stick with the parent moving is responsible for transport, others like to keep it 50/50 no matter what.
3. The likelyhood that you might have to split christmas, about 50/50 there too, its a pretty standard and reasonable request for your ex, depends how the judge is feeling.
4. As long as he is paying CS its normal for him to be awarded every other year to claim the expemtions.

 

[angeleyzad]

I figured I'd get comments...but here ya go...

Ex voluntarily moved from 2 hours away to 4 hours away, and now wants me to travel and more visitation...is the voluntary change enough reason to modify the visitation schedule and make me travel?

Everything that was denied him before is being asked again...any likeihood that he would get it this time? Only change was he changed job locations (same field, new location).

And yes, BB, I know it is "War and Divorce"....it has been all along. I just want it to stop, but I don't want to be stepped on by him for the next 13+ years.

 

[Zephyr]

What is the name of your state? Maine ...sorry for the long post....

We have 2 kids, now ages 5 & 7. Divorce was final in 2001, had a modification shortly thereafter due to ex getting fired and moving from ME to NH. We also established visitations for school vacations and summer break. He asked for majority of summer, with me EOW or something like that, I asked that he get 2 weeks in summer (knowing that I would go to 4 weeks, which I offered him out of court). The judge ordered him to have 4 weeks in summer, no more than 2 weeks at a time. We also alternate all other major holidays, except Christmas, which is set every year, due to our family traditions (I get every X-mas eve and morning, he gets noon X-mas day to noon on 27th).

Okay, here's the deal...Ex is asking me to change our entire schedule - he is stating that he has had a major change in circumstances, so he wants to revise our divorce judgment. He sent me a letter asking for all kinds of things - more visitation, tax exemptions (which we had both asked for, and the judge assigned them to me with him having the option to purchase them from me), he now wants to change the weekend schedule because of his work schedule (no longer wants every other weekend, he wants like 1st and 4th one month, 2nd and 3rd next month because of his work schedule), he wants 6 weeks in summer now, also wants to fully alternate Christmas holiday. He is stating that his change in circumstances is because he moved another 2 hours away from us to be closer to his girlfriend. She cannot relocate because of her daughter. My ex found a new job close to her, which has put his traveling for visitation from 2 hours to 4+ hours each way. I responded to the letter, and I know that he is going to file to modify because I did not give in tohis requests.

And for those of you that are going to say that I am bitter because he is moving on, I am not - I have been happily remarried for going on 4 years now, with a new sibling to my 2 sons, and I am happy that my ex is moving on with his life - especially since he has tried on numerous occasions to get me to take him back since the divorce. I am truly happy for him.

My problem is this - I know that modifications can be made if there is a major change of circumstances - but what regulations are there for it? This change that he has had is voluntary on his part - he was actually supposed to move closer to our sons according to our divorce, but he has always moved further away. I never made an issue about it because he was originally from NH, and that is where his family is. Now he has moved to VT, which is where the new GF is. He already has a reduction in child support for his traveling, I am not denying him the reduction, but I do not think that it would be fair that he could keep moving further away and keep getting bigger reductions (which takes away from what the kids have at home). He is also asking me to meet him half way for his visitations. As of now, he does all the traveling. It would be one thing if he lived close to me (I have been within 20 miles of my original residence), but is it logical that he would move further and further away and I would have to take on some of that burden? He has already moved 3 times, further away each time, and he has always been responsible for the traveling. I know that he can ask for modification of child support every 3 years, but it seems that would be the only thing that could be up for modification.

So here are my questions (I know I kind of asked above, but I will ask here to set them apart)
(1) Would a voluntary change in employment (with virtually the same income as before) be a basis for a modification due to major change in circumstances? (I could see if his job moved him, but he sought out this job in a new location)

it could be- it affects his ability to visit- in the end it's up to the judge


(2) Could I be forced to meet half-way because of his voluntary location change? I don't think it should be my responsibility because he changed jobs and locations.

the judge could order transpo to be split- but the fact that he MAY should not deter you from trying to maintain that dad should bear the burden since he created the distance


(3) What is the likelihood that we would have to alternate the Christmas holiday? I do not want to go every other year, or even alternating X-mas eve/X-mas day, as that would mean that the kids loose out every other year in the family traditions.

very likely you would have to alternate- having to swap- especially at the distance you guys are from each other- that just ruins the holiday for the kids.....

(4) What is the likelihood that he would get the tax exemptions? The judge had ordered that I get them before, and he could purchase them from me. He has not been able to yet because of an arrearage in child support, which will most likely be another year and a half before that is cleared up.

the judge could very possibly give him the right to claim them every other years if he is current with his support- very common, but if he has arrears.....then not much to worry about any way


I will probably have to get a lawyer before all of this is said and done, I would just like some insight on this. It seems that what he is asking me for is pretty ridiculous, as it was his own doing that created these issues for him, now he wants me to pay for it. He is also asking in the letter (and subsequent modification) everything that he asked for in our divorce that the judge denied him.

Any insight from any of you would be great.

in the end no one can tell you what the judge WILL do

 

[CJane]

Ex voluntarily moved from 2 hours away to 4 hours away, and now wants me to travel and more visitation...is the voluntary change enough reason to modify the visitation schedule and make me travel?

Yes. Because when one thing is up for modification, it's ALL up for modification.

Everything that was denied him before is being asked again...any likeihood that he would get it this time? Only change was he changed job locations (same field, new location)

Of course there's some liklihood he'll get some of what he's asking for. Especially if it's considered standard in your state.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Ex voluntarily moved from 2 hours away to 4 hours away, and now wants me to travel and more visitation...is the voluntary change enough reason to modify the visitation schedule and make me travel?

No. But if the ex has custody and the move does not violate the restriction for moving with the jurisdiction of the court, you can file a motion to modify requesting the court to require the ex to drive the additional distance.

Everything that was denied him before is being asked again...any likeihood that he would get it this time? Only change was he changed job locations (same field, new location).

How the hell do we know? How long has it been since the last modification? What 'things' is he asking for?

And yes, BB, I know it is "War and Divorce"....it has been all along. I just want it to stop, but I don't want to be stepped on by him for the next 13+ years.

then post the facts.

 

[angeleyzad]

what, i didnt think it was that long you guys!

1. a change in job and time available is reason enough to request a change, it certainly does not matter if it was voluntary or not. we arent talking about him requesting a change in child support.
2. Yes you could be, it really depends on the judge you get. Some stick with the parent moving is responsible for transport, others like to keep it 50/50 no matter what.
3. The likelyhood that you might have to split christmas, about 50/50 there too, its a pretty standard and reasonable request for your ex, depends how the judge is feeling.
4. As long as he is paying CS its normal for him to be awarded every other year to claim the expemtions.

Thanks for the response...you end up getting it both ways...you give bare minimum, and you get asked for more info...you give more info, and you get that you've given too much.

I guess another question would be, is this something that I could protest him moving so far away? if it is not in the kids' best interest? I hear that being said all over the place, that it's in the kid's best interest to split the costs, but realistically, wouldn't it be in the kid's best interest for their father not to move so far away from them? It doesn't seem fair that the NCP could move so far away that his child support be cut down to nothing. How does that benefit the children? (and no, this is not about the money, as I'm sure there will be comments on that...oh, she's just a money-hungry CP...) He does already have a reduction in child support for his traveling.

Again, as far as the exemptions go, he did ask for the exemptions in court during our divorce, and the judge awarded them to me, with him having the option to purchase them from me if he's up to date in child support. So he can still benefit from them.

Alot of the posts that I have seen on this site when dealing with voluntary changes, I would say that 90% of the posts have said that the voluntary change is not a valid reason to request modifications. That if the job moved you, that was valid, but not if you moved on your own. I guess that is where most of these problems arise...this is a voluntary change on his part...he could have moved closer, but he moved further away.

 

[NotSoNew]

Thanks for the response...you end up getting it both ways...you give bare minimum, and you get asked for more info...you give more info, and you get that you've given too much.

I guess another question would be, is this something that I could protest him moving so far away? if it is not in the kids' best interest? I hear that being said all over the place, that it's in the kid's best interest to split the costs, but realistically, wouldn't it be in the kid's best interest for their father not to move so far away from them? It doesn't seem fair that the NCP could move so far away that his child support be cut down to nothing. How does that benefit the children? (and no, this is not about the money, as I'm sure there will be comments on that...oh, she's just a money-hungry CP...) He does already have a reduction in child support for his traveling.

Again, as far as the exemptions go, he did ask for the exemptions in court during our divorce, and the judge awarded them to me, with him having the option to purchase them from me if he's up to date in child support. So he can still benefit from them.

Alot of the posts that I have seen on this site when dealing with voluntary changes, I would say that 90% of the posts have said that the voluntary change is not a valid reason to request modifications. That if the job moved you, that was valid, but not if you moved on your own. I guess that is where most of these problems arise...this is a voluntary change on his part...he could have moved closer, but he moved further away.

how does/will the move cut his CS down to nothing?

also the voluntary changes you speak of is in regards to CPs, not NCPS, yes it sucks but thats the resonsibilites that come with being a CP.

 

[CJane]

I guess another question would be, is this something that I could protest him moving so far away? if it is not in the kids' best interest? I hear that being said all over the place, that it's in the kid's best interest to split the costs, but realistically, wouldn't it be in the kid's best interest for their father not to move so far away from them?

Dad is not CP, you can't protest the move. The reason people often DO protest the move isn't to keep the PARENT in the same place, it's to keep the CHILDREN in the same place. The court could really give a rat's behind where the parents go.

It doesn't seem fair that the NCP could move so far away that his child support be cut down to nothing. How does that benefit the children? (and no, this is not about the money, as I'm sure there will be comments on that...oh, she's just a money-hungry CP...) He does already have a reduction in child support for his traveling.

No one has any way of knowing if child support would be altered again.

Again, as far as the exemptions go, he did ask for the exemptions in court during our divorce, and the judge awarded them to me, with him having the option to purchase them from me if he's up to date in child support. So he can still benefit from them.

Is this language in your divorce decree or in the parenting plan?

Alot of the posts that I have seen on this site when dealing with voluntary changes, I would say that 90% of the posts have said that the voluntary change is not a valid reason to request modifications. That if the job moved you, that was valid, but not if you moved on your own. I guess that is where most of these problems arise...this is a voluntary change on his part...he could have moved closer, but he moved further away.

Again, the relocation information that you see posted on here is most often in reference to the CP attempting to move the child/ren away from the NCP.

 

[angeleyzad]

I am the CP

I am the CP, Ex is the NCP. He has always had this visitation schedule, he has always traveled himself, and it has never been a problem until the new GF. I know, alot of comments here....but, I have it documented where she is writing me e-mails discussing issues instead of him (two totally different writing styles). Now, because of his move, he does not want to travel, wants me to meet half way, wants larger reduction, etc.

Our divorce was final Jan '02, with an ammendment dated Nov'03 - (took over 1 1/2 years to finalize ammendment) Ammendment was because he lost his job at the time of the divorce. We have not had a modification since. He was supposed to file motion to modify for child support when our oldest son started school for a daycare reduction - but he never did. (After doing most of the legwork for our divorce and ammendment, I told him that I was not doing the legwork for that.)

the items he was denied and is asking for again are: tax exemptions - he can purchase them from me (as stated in our court order) now, but he wants them outright. Summer Vacation - he asked for 6 weeks, but judge denied it - gave him 4. He is asking for 6 weeks again. Weekend schedule - he asked for alternating before, judge ordered that if he moved close to us by the time the boys started school, than it would follow his schedule, otherwise, he would be every other weekend...he's asking to alternate again. X-mas vacation - he wanted to alternate every other year for school vacation, judge said we already alternate with our holiday schedule, denied his request. Also, in court he mentioned wanting to change holiday schedule, judge asked me if I opposed alternating every other year, or alternating eve/day, and I objected because of family traditions on both sides, judge did not change the schedule. He's asking for it to change again. Judge ordered that he could not take kids out of daycare, he's asking to remove kids from daycare/school.

So, as you see, he was denied many things in court. I am not denying him time with his sons, he needs to be in their lives. But, it is not like we were together when the kids were old enough to remember an intact family. The only intact family they have known is me and my new husband, who has been around since the youngest was 1, and the oldest was 2 1/2. Also, my family is very close...always has been. Family functions are a big tradition in my family. Alot of what he is asking for (visitation wise) will not allow the boys to be part of these family functions.

I understand that CP's can be stopped from moving the children. My boys have been in the same area since they were born. I guess my issue is that no, I don't want to stop him from moving, but come on, be reasonable....it's his decision to move further away, it should be his responsibility.

 

[angeleyzad]

how does/will the move cut his CS down to nothing?

NCP currently has a weekly reduction of $45 due to travel expenses. He has tripled his traveling time/distance since, so in using what his new milage is, he is asking for a larger reduction. With that thought in mind, he could move yet further away, and get a larger reduction - in essence reducing the child support down to $0. It just doesn't seem like it would be in the kid's best interest, that's all.

 

[CJane]

the items he was denied and is asking for again are: tax exemptions - he can purchase them from me (as stated in our court order) now, but he wants them outright.

and it's possible he'll get them. No one can tell you. I don't even know what you mean when you say 'purchase them from you'.

Summer Vacation - he asked for 6 weeks, but judge denied it - gave him 4. He is asking for 6 weeks again.

The kids are 2.5 years older now. 6 weeks is totally reasonable.

Weekend schedule - he asked for alternating before, judge ordered that if he moved close to us by the time the boys started school, than it would follow his schedule, otherwise, he would be every other weekend

Aren't these the same thing?

X-mas vacation - he wanted to alternate every other year for school vacation, judge said we already alternate with our holiday schedule, denied his request.

How are you alternating if his request was denied, and you have them every Christmas?

Judge ordered that he could not take kids out of daycare, he's asking to remove kids from daycare/school.

For occasional visitations, or completely? You're not being clear at ALL.

But, it is not like we were together when the kids were old enough to remember an intact family. The only intact family they have known is me and my new husband, who has been around since the youngest was 1, and the oldest was 2 1/2. Also, my family is very close...always has been. Family functions are a big tradition in my family. Alot of what he is asking for (visitation wise) will not allow the boys to be part of these family functions.

And all of that is very close to being completely irrelevant. My kids miss out on family functions too, if they're with their father. We all get over it.

 

[NotSoNew]

just because he asked for this stuff before and was denied does NOT mean he wont get it now when he asks for it, there has been a change in cirumstance and the kids are older and 2.5 years have passed. My husband was denied most things he asked for when his order was placed, now 9 months later he is asking for the same things again due to a change in circumstances, he hopes to get some of them .

i also never heard of "buying" tax deductions, and I surprised he gets a credit for travel on his child support.