Negotiation in Bad Faith?

[LdiJ]

No, you stated county- that was my typo (error)... I edited it. Same answer. I believe if you research this topic it is 100 miles...not drive to the county line (which could be anywhere between 5 and 100 miles or more) and THEN start clocking it.

There are other issues as well that make this sound like a modification is necessary. (increased parenting time via caretaking and additional expense for transportation to provide that care etc.)

Also, why is Dad not challenging the move since Mom DID NOT get court approval to move? How long ago did she move?

Honestly, its the county line...their order even spelled that out......and in Indiana there aren't any counties that are large like that. Most of our counties are no more than about 30-35 miles across or tall.

It was explained to me by an attorney that the purpose for making it the county line was to avoid any conflicts over how to judge the distance.

Again, if it wasn't Indiana, and the parenting time credits weren't at risk, I would agree with you. However, those parenting time credits are VERY valuable.

I should also explain that Indiana judges stick very strictly to the parenting time guidelines unless parents agree between themselves on something different. The long distance guidelines simply will never give him the amount of overnights that are included in his current calculation....and he has no leverage to get her to agree to more in mediation.

I think he would be taking a financial risk UNLESS he pulls out the child support calculation and finds that it wasn't calculated based on a weekday overnight and sunday overnight.

 

[casa]

Honestly, its the county line...their order even spelled that out......and in Indiana there aren't any counties that are large like that. Most of our counties are no more than about 30-35 miles across or tall.

It was explained to me by an attorney that the purpose for making it the county line was to avoid any conflicts over how to judge the distance.

Again, if it wasn't Indiana, and the parenting time credits weren't at risk, I would agree with you. However, those parenting time credits are VERY valuable.

I should also explain that Indiana judges stick very strictly to the parenting time guidelines unless parents agree between themselves on something different. The long distance guidelines simply will never give him the amount of overnights that are included in his current calculation....and he has no leverage to get her to agree to more in mediation.

I think he would be taking a financial risk UNLESS he pulls out the child support calculation and finds that it wasn't calculated based on a weekday overnight and sunday overnight.

Hey you know Indiana way better than I do

I just can't understand how it's NOT relevant that Dad misses an evening AND an overnight...and now has to commute 100 miles more than previously...and is making that additional commute more frequently bc of Mom's requests for providing care.

Are you saying that none of that would matter in Indiana? You are probably correct, but it just makes me more grateful I live in CA.

 

[CJane]

Honestly, its the county line...their order even spelled that out......and in Indiana there aren't any counties that are large like that. Most of our counties are no more than about 30-35 miles across or tall.

Really? I was picturing the way the counties are here... just the school district my kids attend in is 115 sq miles... and it's one of 3 rural districts and 6 urban districts in the county. I could move 100 miles from the county line and be more than 160 miles from him.

 

[LdiJ]

Hey you know Indiana way better than I do

I just can't understand how it's NOT relevant that Dad misses an evening AND an overnight...and now has to commute 100 miles more than previously...and is making that additional commute more frequently bc of Mom's requests for providing care.

Are you saying that none of that would matter in Indiana? You are probably correct, but it just makes me more grateful I live in CA.

I am not saying that it wouldn't matter...however the Indiana Supreme Court spent a lot of effort on establishing extensive parenting time guidelines, extensive child support guidelines and specific relocation rules, in order to unclog the courts and to streamline the processes. It was also done in order to encourage parents to come to agreements on their own.

Therefore, when judges have to make visitation orders, (rather than the parents agreeing) they almost always order the parents to follow the "Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines"...and that's that. Its the same with child support.

Plus, with the parenting time credits being so valuable, and making such a huge difference in the cs calculation, this particular parent has more to lose than to gain. Sometimes people don't pick up on that until its too late, and they are stuck paying higher child support.

 

[casa]

I am not saying that it wouldn't matter...however the Indiana Supreme Court spent a lot of effort on establishing extensive parenting time guidelines, extensive child support guidelines and specific relocation rules, in order to unclog the courts and to streamline the processes. It was also done in order to encourage parents to come to agreements on their own.

Therefore, when judges have to make visitation orders, (rather than the parents agreeing) they almost always order the parents to follow the "Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines"...and that's that. Its the same with child support.

Plus, with the parenting time credits being so valuable, and making such a huge difference in the cs calculation, this particular parent has more to lose than to gain. Sometimes people don't pick up on that until its too late, and they are stuck paying higher child support.

I will cede to your superior knowledge re; Indiana specifically. And...meanwhile I will try to wrap my brain around how a parent increases parenting time, increases travel distance...and gets no break.

 

[casa]

Really? I was picturing the way the counties are here... just the school district my kids attend in is 115 sq miles... and it's one of 3 rural districts and 6 urban districts in the county. I could move 100 miles from the county line and be more than 160 miles from him.

This was one of the concerns I had re; parents 'wiggling' around the guideline.

 

[LdiJ]

Really? I was picturing the way the counties are here... just the school district my kids attend in is 115 sq miles... and it's one of 3 rural districts and 6 urban districts in the county. I could move 100 miles from the county line and be more than 160 miles from him.

Yeah...if you look at a map of Indiana, you see just a whole bunch of little squares as counties....with some minor variations where there are rivers and things. I live in Indianapolis, which is Marion county. Its a large city, but not a huge one. The city takes up the entire county, plus their are suburbs in 4 other counties. (north, south, east and west). It takes me 20 minutes to get from my side of the county (far east) to the airport which is on the far west side of the county.

 

[casa]

Yeah...if you look at a map of Indiana, you see just a whole bunch of little squares as counties....with some minor variations where there are rivers and things. I live in Indianapolis, which is Marion county. Its a large city, but not a huge one. The city takes up the entire county, plus their are suburbs in 4 other counties. (north, south, east and west). It takes me 20 minutes to get from my side of the county (far east) to the airport which is on the far west side of the county.

Hey LdiJ (not being argumentative,honest! ) If your theory is correct, and I do believe you are honestly quoting an attorney, then how is it possible for OPs X to move 99 miles outside the county line- but NOT be moving 2 or more counties away then? Or does it not matter re; county- but more the 100 mile guideline? (In which case there is the question of why the county mention in the first place)

<still glad I live in CA>

 

[LdiJ]

Hey LdiJ (not being argumentative,honest! ) If your theory is correct, and I do believe you are honestly quoting an attorney, then how is it possible for OPs X to move 99 miles outside the county line- but NOT be moving 2 or more counties away then? Or does it not matter re; county- but more the 100 mile guideline? (In which case there is the question of why the county mention in the first place)

<still glad I live in CA>

Its the 100 miles that matters. I've never seen anything else used.

In fact, I can think of at least a couple of examples where 10 miles could be two counties away...lol. Take a look at this map and you will see what I mean.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/maps/indiana_map.html

 

[lokeen]

Plus, with the parenting time credits being so valuable, and making such a huge difference in the cs calculation, this particular parent has more to lose than to gain. Sometimes people don't pick up on that until its too late, and they are stuck paying higher child support.

This is why I appreciate your invaulable post. Without you pointing it out, we would have fallen into that category. We are just going to sit on what we have with regards to child support and just continue on with our documentation. Let's hope for our sake that there is no such thing as too much documentation!

 

[tigger22472]

Yeah...if you look at a map of Indiana, you see just a whole bunch of little squares as counties....with some minor variations where there are rivers and things. I live in Indianapolis, which is Marion county. Its a large city, but not a huge one. The city takes up the entire county, plus their are suburbs in 4 other counties. (north, south, east and west). It takes me 20 minutes to get from my side of the county (far east) to the airport which is on the far west side of the county.

Woman... You speed more then I do then!!

How far east we talking ? Post Road? Kitley? to the airport in 20 minutes you're nuts !!!

I will concede however on much of your advice. A friend is going through a divorce and I helped draw up the parenting plan that her STBX agreed to. At some point later he claims to have called lawyers who said they couldn't issue their own parenting plan and that it HAD to be the guidelines. She called and asked and I assured her that wasn't true (then came here..lol). The next day her STBX called saying he spoke to another attorney and was told differently. Her parenting plan specifically said the county because in my opinion 100 miles is just too far.

And Casa... let me try to explain this without using the calculator but using LDIJ's method from earlier in the thread. Let's say dad gets those two extra overnights... his child support is 43$... he loses those two extra overnights and the support goes to 135$ Now... it's not going to cost them 92$ a week in gas to transport the children. With that figure there is a 'savings' of 368$ a month. Now, he takes it and fight the small 16 miles that's going to look petty (if though they are figuring by county and it's less), he also HAS the children more then mom but mom would fight that you bet your behind on that. So, he won't get anywhere on the mileage and mom then asks for support mod and the support goes up. IF he's lucky she'll have to provide transportation but that's not guaranteed. So he's risking pay way extra in support, not seeing the kids as much as he is now AND paying transportation.

This is a wait it out and document situation..... Save the battle for when you have the evidence to prove the case.

 

[tigger22472]

Its the 100 miles that matters. I've never seen anything else used.

In fact, I can think of at least a couple of examples where 10 miles could be two counties away...lol. Take a look at this map and you will see what I mean.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/maps/indiana_map.html

I looked at that and laughed... I live in Carroll county but on the very edge of White. Every night I drive 25 miles east (entering Cass County) to drive back down to Carroll county, then pass cut across back to White County then drive south to Tippecanoe county to come back up to the Carroll/White County line... I do all that at 110 miles. I deliver papers and get all of it done in 2 hours. That tells you how small counties are. Tonight I get the pleasure of driving back up into Benton county.

 

[LdiJ]

Woman... You speed more then I do then!!

How far east we talking ? Post Road? Kitley? to the airport in 20 minutes you're nuts !!!

Post Road...is where I get on the interstate...LOL I have a bit of a "lead foot" but not that much...

 

[tigger22472]

Post Road...is where I get on the interstate...LOL I have a bit of a "lead foot" but not that much...

OH please... getting on the interstate at 38th and High School to get to the airport takes 15 minutes... You have a bit more than 'a bit' of a lead foot if your feeding me that!!

 

[LdiJ]

OH please... getting on the interstate at 38th and High School to get to the airport takes 15 minutes... You have a bit more than 'a bit' of a lead foot if your feeding me that!!

No, seriously...its a straight shot interstate the whole way....its not 20 minutes when there is lots of traffic....but otherwise it is. That's just the travel time though...its not parking and getting inside. I usually allow myself 30 minutes total and make it inside with time to spare.

I do tend to speed...but I am traveling at about 65-70 mph. I can see why it would take 15 minutes from 38th and High School...the traffics generally awful there. (at least anytime I have been over there)