Pses - Letter To Aclu

[gml659]

What is the name of your state? WA.

Legal Department
ACLU of Washington
***************
***************

Dear ACLU,

I have followed the ACLU for many years. As a member of the Libertarian Party (www.lp.org) for 12 years I have agreed with the Pro-Liberty stance of the ACLU, I would say, 99% of the time. Your’s is an organization I very much admire and respect.

I will get to my point:

I recently was ordered by Washington State to pay Post Secondary Educational Support (PSES) to my 18yo Adult Son. This provision of PSES was “Reserved” in my Parenting Plan upon my Divorce in 2000. By being “Reserved”, as I understood it - I had no choice. The provision of PSES is contained in the Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 26.19.090 (see copy).

In June 2004, per the PSES Provisions, my ex-wife Petitioned for PSES. August 30th, we had our hearing. The Commissioner, I believe, was bound by the limitations of RCW 26.19.090 and thus could not rule the Law invalid, or such. I was compelled (79%) to support my Son’s PSES endeavor’s until December of 2004, upon which my Ex-Wife may take me back to Court for additional PSES.

At the time I am appealing the order on the following grounds:

1. RCW 26.19.090 is a violation of the “Equality” Clause of the 14th Amendment. I proceeded to respectfully tell the Court that many states find PSES a violation of the 14th Amendment, notable Pennsylvania - Re: Curtis v. Kline. I argued that I have been put into a “Classification” of “Divorced” which violates the 14th.(see copy)

2. That PSES violates Washington States Constitution Article I, Section 12 (see copy) in that PSES reverse confers special “Privileges” and Rights” to intact married couples. I respectfully argued that an intact married couple can simply state “NO” to PSES to their Adult Children with immunity - yet I cannot.

I then respectfully asked the Court some rhetorical questions in reference to the above legal documents:

1. Why can’t a married spouse petition his/her spouse for PSES?

2. Why is an Adult (Ex-Wife) allowed to Petition the Court for my Son who is an Adult and yet not need a Power-Of Attorney from my Adult Son? Why doesn’t he (Son) simply Petition me?

3. Why, for the needs of PSES, is my Son considered “Dependent” and yet he is an Adult for all other lawful purposes?

4. If my Ex-Wife, for my Son, can compel support from me until he is 23 years old (RCW 26.19.090) why cannot ALL 18 to 23 year olds, through a Parent, be able to compel support from the other Parent. Is not my Son, through his Mother, afforded a special “Right” and or “Privilege” that is not afforded 18 to 23 year old’s who’s Parents are still married and intact?

There is some Case Law on PSES. Please see the attachment from Dads of America that reference some of these.

In my endeavors on the Internet I have discovered some Legislative Proceeding from Connecticut in which some of the Legislators have questions of Constitutionality similar to mine. I have not included those here due to there onerous length.

I am fighting this Unconstitutional Law. I plan to take this case all the way to the Washington Supreme Court if I have too. Though, I do have rather liberal financial means, I cannot afford the possible five or six figure amount it would cost me to fight this Law. Thus, I am proceeding, at this time - Pro Se.

I respectfully request, if possible, any means of help the ACLU can afford me. I do not need financial help and would be willing to help the ACLU defer costs if involved in my Court proceedings. A stance of Amicus Curiae would be most helpful.

 

[prettyredhead]

Cry me a river. Pay for the facking college and move on . Please. Sorry, sometimes kids cost money after 19.

 

[VeronicaGia]

This link: http://www.dadsnow.org/legal/curtis.htm is to the case in PA that stopped college support. See if there's anything in there you can use.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

This link: http://www.dadsnow.org/legal/curtis.htm is to the case in PA that stopped college support. See if there's anything in there you can use.

Before you help this 'donkey' VG, might want to take a look at the OTHER posts, including this one.

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=196916

 

[LdiJ]

Lets say you win. Lets say that you are successful in winning your whole battle against PSES. Do you realize that the entire time you are fighting this battle your son is going to resent you more and more? Do you realize that once you win and think you can use your money to control your son and force him to respect you, that they only thing that's going to result is your son saying, "FU, I don't need your money"?

I had a paternal grandmother that I loved dearly, but she was a lot like you...milder, but a lot like you.

When I was 19 she didn't like my boyfriend (he had a latino heritage-she was a bigot). I was going to Chicago with friends over Christmas break to shop. She offered me several of her credit cards and told me that I could buy whatever I liked. THEN, she told me the condition. Give up my boyfriend.
I threw the cards right back in her lap and told her I didn't need or want her money.

That is the same thing your son is going to do to you if you succeed. He will never allow you to hold your money over his head...it isn't going to happen....and if he does, he won't be the smart and successful person that you want him to be.

 

[AHA]

Little bitter man. Can't be easy being you, since everyone running away from you and wanting nothing to do with you except your cash. Who said being a moron doesn't cost anything?

 

[gml659]

So LDiJ was your grandmother right? I wish someone had done this to me when I meet my Ex-Wife when she was 15. I wish my family had cut me off. I can still remember my 18yo friends mother saying, "she is just after your families money"......how prophetic. (Your Grandmother was wrong about the race thing though...maybe is was not about race...only a coincidence)

In fact they did when I was in college because I dissed them....best thing that ever happened to me.

I am not a "Donkey" because I refuse to give into the states extortion of me....or my Ex....or my Son's. This guy (Son) is an ADULT. Please keep in mind I ALWAYS paid his CHSUP on time when he was a MINOR. I had no problem with this.....NONE.

I ask you nay-sayers one question. Under what conditions would YOU refuse to pay for you Son/Daughters College education? I bet I get NO answers to this. Most of you nay-sayers are in the world of THEORY instead of reality...like two teens on their first date trying to impress one another.

I know my posts have been bitter.....I admit that. I know I have made mistakes too. I cannot possibly post here all the garbage that has gone on.

Those of you that accuse me of using Counseling as extortion are full of BS. That is like saying me wanting to give my wife a hug is rape. Family Counseling is a VERY effective tool. How could I possibly be wrong for wanting this? I even watch an HBO special the other night were the whole Family went to therapy. The kid became an Honor Role student.

Those of you who disregard what my Ex has done in this whole thing are just blind.

GML

 

[rmet4nzkx]

To gml659,
If it weren't against my code of ethics I would make a suggestion involving duct tape and a _ _ _ _ _ _ _ bag.

Grow up, be a man and quit acting like a crybaby! You have made your bed, now lie in it, along with your vermon. You got just what you want, but you won't get sympathy from anyone except other hateful loosers like yourself. You will evoke cheers of joy upon your departure in any form it takes. ACLU, pleazzzz they won't waste the time of day on you they have more important things to do than help fathers lie to their children.

You are the type when you change jobs or transition, your coworkers will wait until after you leave than hold a "Hit the road Jack party!"



You are the one in serious need of counseling and medication, have you got your attorney yet?

 

[gml659]

RMet,

Why do you CARE so much about me?

WE have two points of view.....I disagree with you.....I have even asked you not to reply to my posts. If you do, OK, but I am NOT pestering YOU in particular to reply. I am not FORCING you to reply. My opinion is NO ONE is impressed by you or your illogical rants too me. Keep in mind I am NOT trying to impress you, others, or even myself here on this Forum. I just want advice....as legal as possible. YOUR the one that is NOT professional here.

Yes, I do have an attorney. He will be there for round two.

GML

 

[LdiJ]

So LDiJ was your grandmother right? I wish someone had done this to me when I meet my Ex-Wife when she was 15. I wish my family had cut me off. I can still remember my 18yo friends mother saying, "she is just after your families money"......how prophetic. (Your Grandmother was wrong about the race thing though...maybe is was not about race...only a coincidence)

No, my grandmother was wrong. He was bright student, hard worker, nice guy and I probably would have married him (with my parent's blessing)if he hadn't been diagnosed a couple of years later with leukemia, and subsequently died. My grandmother was simply a bigot.

I am not a "Donkey" because I refuse to give into the states extortion of me....or my Ex....or my Son's. This guy (Son) is an ADULT. Please keep in mind I ALWAYS paid his CHSUP on time when he was a MINOR. I had no problem with this.....NONE.

I am sorry but I don't buy the "he's an adult" bit. You are angry with him for not forcing his mother to drop the case for PSES.

I ask you nay-sayers one question. Under what conditions would YOU refuse to pay for you Son/Daughters College education? I bet I get NO answers to this. Most of you nay-sayers are in the world of THEORY instead of reality...like two teens on their first date trying to impress one another.

The only conditions under which I wouldn't pay for my daughter's college is if I couldn't..or if she wasn't making any progress with it. Maybe I would feel the way you do if my daughter hated me and wanted nothing to do with me. However after reading all your posts I honestly believe that YOU are to blame for your relationship with your son. I think you are in denial in blaming it on their mother. She may have bad-mouthed you, however your own actions are proving her right in the eyes of your son's.

I know my posts have been bitter.....I admit that. I know I have made mistakes too. I cannot possibly post here all the garbage that has gone on.

Those of you that accuse me of using Counseling as extortion are full of BS. That is like saying me wanting to give my wife a hug is rape. Family Counseling is a VERY effective tool. How could I possibly be wrong for wanting this? I even watch an HBO special the other night were the whole Family went to therapy. The kid became an Honor Role student.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with you wanting counseling. I said that a judge couldn't ORDER them to do it. I also didn't say you used counseling as extortion. I said you blackmailed them into it. You did that by pursuing your extensive contempt case against your ex and then using THAT to force them into counseling. You agreed to drop the contempt if they agreed to go to counseling with you. They did...you didn't like the results and then wanted to sue the counselor or get administrative action taken against the counselor for "steering them down the wrong road". That more than anything else confirmed how badly you are in denial of your own fault for your problems.

You got the counseling you wanted. You wanted the counseling to prove to all of them that they are the "bad guys". It didn't. I suspect it proved that YOU were the "bad guy".

I hope you kept your bargain of dropping the contempt case anyway. Otherwise my opinion of your actions will plummet even further.

Those of you who disregard what my Ex has done in this whole thing are just blind.

GML

I doubt if anyone here thinks that your ex has been an angel. I doubt if anyone here thinks that your ex didn't bad-mouth you to your children. What we suspect however, was that she didn't lie to them.....AND we suspect that because of your own behavior.....and because you have bitter disputes with more parties than just your ex and sons.

 

[topsidder]

gml,

I will not judge you morally. Good luck with your fight, my husband has just finished his, support stopped at 18.

I applaud your ingenuity with seeking help and guidance thru the ACLU. I must admit, it never occured to contact them.

Hang tough, any legally obligated person paying suuport who actually tries to terminate that support is regarded as sub-human on this site. I guess these young attorney's and legal gurus beleive support is a life long obligation.

Sorry all, there really is a cut off from the endless, month-after-month cash leak. And, this gentelman has every right to want to end his support. He does not owe his kid a college education. No one is OWED a college education. If the state wants to compel divorced parents to provide an education, then they must compel ALL parents.

The 14th ademendment argument has been tried on more than one occassion, and has been unsuccesful. Try it though, I am interested in the opinion. Watch NY. Mr. Rosenberger (I believe) is arguing a case that may help you. October Docket.

 

[gml659]

>>>>>>>I said that a judge couldn't ORDER them to do it. I also didn't say you used counseling as extortion. I said you blackmailed them into it. You did that by pursuing your extensive contempt case against your ex and then using THAT to force them into counseling. You agreed to drop the contempt if they agreed to go to counseling with you. They did...you didn't like the results and then wanted to sue the counselor or get administrative action taken against the counselor for "steering them down the wrong road". That more than anything else confirmed how badly you are in denial of your own fault for your problems.<<<<<<

I asked to go to Counseling. She didn't go. I have posted so much stuff here that you have gotten your dates out of wack.....no problem. I DID (2yrs ago) have the kids in Counseling WITHOUT me and they backed out because Mom was trashing me. What is the difference between extortion and blackmail.

Topsidder:

Thank you for your support. In defense of the folks here they only read what I post. I ADMIT I am bitter and do, most likely, cast myself in a bad light.

This said, the CONTENT of what I have said is true. The Son and Ex conspired against me. There is, as I have always said, more to the story. The support DOES have to end. Now I might be paying for this young "boy" until he is 23yo. I will probably pay MORE per month for him as an Adult than when he was a minor (I payed $53,000 1997 - 2004). I guess he will have a hard time ever running for Public Office. If asked how did he pay for his College instead of saying he did it "on his own" he can say his Mom forced his Dad for him. If he were running for office on this forum, though, he would probably win.

I do think there are alot of "young lawyers" here that are into the "system" and can not see the system, to a large extent, is nothing more than a massive extortion effort. A system designed in screw the minority. I agree, if I am FORCED to pay support ALL parents should be FORCED.....of course many here would have an excuse why THAT shoundn't happen.

You are not the only one supporting me. I have gotten several private messages to the same. Again. Thank You!!!


GML

 

[abc999]

Pses

What happened with your situation? Go as far as the Supreme Court?

 

[ceara19]

What happened with your situation? Go as far as the Supreme Court?

Well, since he hasn't been back to this thread in over 2 YEARS, my guess is he lost. He's the type of person that would have come back to gloat had he won.

 

[Mediate]

What happened with your situation? Go as far as the Supreme Court?

Are you freaking kidding me??! This is your first freaking post and you dig up a post from 2 1/2 years ago?!!?!!!?!
Hi there, gml.