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Seller TOOK THE SIDEWALK!!!
- Thread starter 1stHomeGa
- Start date
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tranquility
Senior Member
I know what pavers are. I also know the general case law on fixtures. My opinion there is that it is not clear and that there is a bit of argument before finding they are a fixture. That you are sure, without legal support, is of no merit.
justalayman
Senior Member
I think part of the problem here is, I believe, nobody understands what you mean by "pavers" and have no idea of the cost/loss. Maybe if you explained what type of pavers you have. Maybe a link to a pic or source would allow others to realize how much money we could be talking here.
Also, how large of an area are we speaking of?
Also, how large of an area are we speaking of?
This is very similar to what was installed. Sorry for not clarifying what a "paver" actually was.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dandruffelinc.com/WEB8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dandruffelinc.com/new_page_3.htm&h=375&w=500&sz=124&tbnid=tdNG2fRd7hvoTM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=126&zoom=1&usg=__gRGDIxL6QOibVbu7P2ATkVKrHXY=&docid=VcOPC1ttzmFOxM&sa=X&ei=ri-0UMbxCIqsyAH79YCoCQ&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA&dur=5534
Sidewalk was about 5 feet wide and 30 feet long.
I'm getting a couple estimates this week to find out costs to reinstall
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dandruffelinc.com/WEB8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dandruffelinc.com/new_page_3.htm&h=375&w=500&sz=124&tbnid=tdNG2fRd7hvoTM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=126&zoom=1&usg=__gRGDIxL6QOibVbu7P2ATkVKrHXY=&docid=VcOPC1ttzmFOxM&sa=X&ei=ri-0UMbxCIqsyAH79YCoCQ&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA&dur=5534
Sidewalk was about 5 feet wide and 30 feet long.
I'm getting a couple estimates this week to find out costs to reinstall
For the sake of argument let's say you went to bed this evening and woke up tomorrow morning. When you went down to the end of the driveway to get the morning paper you happened to glance over and notice that sometime during the night somebody removed the brick sidewalk leading from your driveway to the front door of your house.
What would you do?
What would you do?
OHRoadwarrior
Senior Member
Install concrete so it would never happen again.
OHRoadwarrior
Senior Member
Yeppers, those kinds of things seem to happen in this state. I will never forget how the Federal government rejected Cleveland's offer to assist in relocation of people from Katrina. Those in the know firmly believe the Federal government showed uncommon wisdom in not putting all those system dependent people where they could learn new tricks. I'm fond of saying the way to buy your home in a good neighborhood, is to buy it farther away than criminals can afford the gas money to drive.
justalayman
Senior Member
For gosh sakes tranquility, we are talking about somebody removing part of the landscaping. I don't see how you can even suggest this is a chattel.
I cannot access a case that appears to be cited for an attempt at determining the answer. Maybe you can.
Hamp v. Bygrave, 266 E.G. 720, 1983 E.G.L.R.1 174 (1983)
tranquility
Senior Member
The problem is not what everyone thinks, but what the law is. A garden gnome is a part of the landscaping, can they owner take it when he sells the house? Plants are attached, what if they are in a pot? A half barrel? A larger container that requires a crane to move?
Say there is a paver that was made by the owner's now dead child that, with removal loosens the entire walkway? What if the removal just loosens a row? What if it just can be removed and leave a hole? What if it was a gravel or woodchip pathway?
What a fixture is can be difficult. Do I think this was a fixture? As with you, sure. In my gut, it seems like it should be a part of the land. That, and a dollar will get me a large soda at McDonalds.
I know that I would not spend the day toating a ton of pavers just to save some money in the cost of goods while knowing the replacement cost to the new owner would be far greater. But it appears the seller is motivated. I would bet he is going to remove a case from small claims and fight this thing if there is a lawsuit. I also bet the attorney he gets to fight this will know all the case law on fixtures and will argue that if you can pick it up easily with your hand (And, with your client's testimony he never intended to keep them there and always planned to build a BBQ with them.), that the common law criteria for what a fixture is will not be met.
Say there is a paver that was made by the owner's now dead child that, with removal loosens the entire walkway? What if the removal just loosens a row? What if it just can be removed and leave a hole? What if it was a gravel or woodchip pathway?
What a fixture is can be difficult. Do I think this was a fixture? As with you, sure. In my gut, it seems like it should be a part of the land. That, and a dollar will get me a large soda at McDonalds.
I know that I would not spend the day toating a ton of pavers just to save some money in the cost of goods while knowing the replacement cost to the new owner would be far greater. But it appears the seller is motivated. I would bet he is going to remove a case from small claims and fight this thing if there is a lawsuit. I also bet the attorney he gets to fight this will know all the case law on fixtures and will argue that if you can pick it up easily with your hand (And, with your client's testimony he never intended to keep them there and always planned to build a BBQ with them.), that the common law criteria for what a fixture is will not be met.
I would take pictures of the area now. I would also get pictures from before showing the pavers in place. If there are pictures from the real estate listing showing the pavers, include those as well.
You have a lot of options, however, the separation of legal terms, facts, statements, and the sense of robbing your landscape, all take on different directions.
A) you could file a criminal complaint for stolen pavers.
B) you could file a civil claim for the removal of pavers.
C) you could estimate the cost for the project to be completed from bottom up, with pavers, with cement, with gravel, and present this information to the seller for resolution of the removal of pavers.
D) do you know for certain the seller is the one who took the pavers?
You have a lot of options, however, the separation of legal terms, facts, statements, and the sense of robbing your landscape, all take on different directions.
A) you could file a criminal complaint for stolen pavers.
B) you could file a civil claim for the removal of pavers.
C) you could estimate the cost for the project to be completed from bottom up, with pavers, with cement, with gravel, and present this information to the seller for resolution of the removal of pavers.
D) do you know for certain the seller is the one who took the pavers?
Just Blue
Senior Member
Wow. What an offensive thing to say.
OHRoadwarrior
Senior Member
Clevelanders made the news by calling 911 and taking ambulances to the hospital over things like a cut finger. Turns out, they did not own cars and the ambulance ride was free to them, whereas a taxi going the same direction cost money. Did I mention they would leave the hospital to continue on to their original destination.
THAT is offensive.
tranquility
Senior Member
Hijacker award of the year!
Sure, give your opinion. Change an active thread where people are still giving relevant information on an issue important to the OP, I'm thinking you have a different agenda.
What is it?