Speaking and planning through kids

[californiamom3]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
NCP had kids last night for diner visit. Daughter called me to ask for an extra 1/2 hour because diner was running late. I asked to speak to dad. I told dad that he should not be having the kids call me to ask such things. That is between him and I. Then I was was told by daughter that when he got off the phone with me he ranted about how stupid I was being about all this. He also showed her the holiday schedule which was included with the mediators report. I asked if she read the whole report. She said no along with the ....oh dang...I just got dad in trouble look on her face.
Then later that night I heard our youngest, 10, ask her sister for, "The $50 dad gave me." This morning I asked the 10 year old about it and she said that he gave it to her to help save up for a new bed. Dad told her not to tell me.
Not only does she not need a new bed in my house, he didn't speak to me about it.
Also last night I was told by my 16 year old that her dad has arranged a limo (he will be driving) to take she and her friends to the homecoming dance.
I feel like this is getting out of hand. I don't feel it's right for me pull 20 questions when they get home. I don't know what to do.
We have a hearing in December. Is there anything that I should be doing at this point besides logging and just wait until December?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
NCP had kids last night for diner visit. Daughter called me to ask for an extra 1/2 hour because diner was running late. I asked to speak to dad. I told dad that he should not be having the kids call me to ask such things. That is between him and I. Then I was was told by daughter that when he got off the phone with me he ranted about how stupid I was being about all this. He also showed her the holiday schedule which was included with the mediators report. I asked if she read the whole report. She said no along with the ....oh dang...I just got dad in trouble look on her face.
Then later that night I heard our youngest, 10, ask her sister for, "The $50 dad gave me." This morning I asked the 10 year old about it and she said that he gave it to her to help save up for a new bed. Dad told her not to tell me.
Not only does she not need a new bed in my house, he didn't speak to me about it.
Also last night I was told by my 16 year old that her dad has arranged a limo (he will be driving) to take she and her friends to the homecoming dance.
I feel like this is getting out of hand. I don't feel it's right for me pull 20 questions when they get home. I don't know what to do.
We have a hearing in December. Is there anything that I should be doing at this point besides logging and just wait until December?

Isn't dad supposed to arrange visitation through the children? I thought that was one of YOUR odd court orders. So I am confused as to why you now want him to go through you if your court orders state he arranges visitation with the children. If not then let me know and I will alter my answer to be appropriate to YOUR circumstance.

What is wrong with him driving a limo for daughter and friends to the dance? And if he wants to give his children money then that is HIS right.

 

[Newlydivmomto4]

From one mom to another.
Isn't your dd calling you at dinner with her dad the same thing as if she was over at her friend's house and they went out to dinner, the restaurant was slow and she would need to be 1/2 an hour late coming home?
Maybe your 10yo wants a new bed and hasn't asked you yet becuase she knows money is tight?
Dad is driving dd to her homecoming in the limo? Um, lets see, thats an issue? He's taking an active interest in his daughter? Better call the Sheriff's department.

 

[californiamom3]

Isn't dad supposed to arrange visitation through the children? No
I thought that was one of YOUR odd court orders. So I am confused as to why you now want him to go through you if your court orders state he arranges visitation with the children. If not then let me know and I will alter my answer to be appropriate to YOUR circumstance.

What is wrong with him driving a limo for daughter and friends to the dance?
You don't think that I should be a part of who drives my daughter to a dance?
She doesn't get to tell me who is driving her to the dance. She can absolutely discuss this with me before it is set in stone. I don't find this any more appropriate than her telling me what time she will be home at night.

And if he wants to give his children money then that is HIS right. Sure he can give them money all he wants. Do you really think it's appropriate for him to tell her to keep it a secret from me? She knows what the issue is. Some time ago she asked if she could get a new bed. NO. She has a very nice bed in her room along with a new mattress. She is a 10 year old that want, want, wants. She also wants to paint it, a new desk, her own computer and TV. We don't always get what we want. She told him that I said "no" on a new bed. So now he is giving her money to save up for a new bed.

 

[wileybunch]

Whose custody time is this dance on? If it's on yours, Dad's definitely overstepping and so your issue is with DAD, not the child who doesn't understand these legal/adult matters.

 

[Ohiogal]

Isn't dad supposed to arrange visitation through the children? No
I thought that was one of YOUR odd court orders. So I am confused as to why you now want him to go through you if your court orders state he arranges visitation with the children. If not then let me know and I will alter my answer to be appropriate to YOUR circumstance.

I apologize for being wrong. But you did state this prior:

In the most recent orders he has supervised visitation.....to turn into unsupervised based on the kids comfort level.

and

The kids are to iniate all contact.

and

They want to see him.

You gave the children POWER before. It was based on their wants and their beliefs. And now you want to take that away. The children are testing you. Quite frankly you are a bit of a control freak with this whole thing.

What is wrong with him driving a limo for daughter and friends to the dance?
You don't think that I should be a part of who drives my daughter to a dance?
She doesn't get to tell me who is driving her to the dance. She can absolutely discuss this with me before it is set in stone. I don't find this any more appropriate than her telling me what time she will be home at night.

Wait. She can discuss this with you -- that dad is driving -- but she can't discuss being a half hour late from dinner with dad. I need a road map of what you think dad should discuss with you and what your daughter should discuss.
How about you do the mature thing -- sit down and have a conversation with dad where you discuss things. And yes we all know that you think he is a horrible person who will run off at a moment's notice and take your children to Holland or the chiropractor without your permission.

And if he wants to give his children money then that is HIS right. Sure he can give them money all he wants. Do you really think it's appropriate fro him to tell her to keep it a secret from me? She knows what the issue is. Some time ago she asked if she could get a new bed. NO. She has a very nice bed in her room along with a new mattress. She is a 10 year old that want, want, wants. She also wants to paint it, a new desk, her own computer and TV. We don't always get what we want. She told him that I said "no" on a new bed. So now he is giving her money to save up for a new bed.

He has that right. And your daughter can save up if she really wants and buy a new bed or a desk or a computer or a television or anything else.

 

[californiamom3]

Whose custody time is this dance on? If it's on yours, Dad's definitely overstepping and so your issue is with DAD, not the child who doesn't understand these legal/adult matters.

The day is on my time.
Yes,the biggest issue is with dad, but daughter is convinced that she is so grown up that she doesn't need to pass these things through me either.
Daughter is convinced that the court orders are so silly that they don't need to be followed. (I have overheard phone conversations between her and dad on this subject) She may not understand these adult matters but he's doing his best to see it his way. He consistently discusses child support, where it should be spent, and custody issues with all three children.
The first post of this thread were just a few examples.

 

[californiamom3]

Wait. She can discuss this with you -- that dad is driving -- but she can't discuss being a half hour late from dinner with dad. I need a road map of what you think dad should discuss with you and what your daughter should discuss.
I see where you got the wrong idea about this. I didn't write exactly what I had in my head. So to correct this, NO- dad should have discussed this idea with me first.
As far as the power the girls had previously. That was given by the judge based on getting to know dad. If someone were apprehensive, they didn't have to go.
That is all behind them now. They all seem to feel pretty good about the way things are going. The only thing similar to that now is our middle daughters choice to attend a tournament rather than a visit. (He can go if he wants....but if he can't, she can still go to her tournament on "his day")

And your daughter can save up if she really wants and buy a new bed or a desk or a computer or a television or anything else.
Yep, she sure can. BUT, she is NOT getting a TV in her room, nor a computer for internet. After money has been spent on a new mattress she's not putting a new bed there either. I am the adult here. She doesn't get to decide these things. Nor does her dad get to decide what goes in MY house. He's more than welcome to buy any of those things for her in HIS house.

 

[momofrose]

Wait. She can discuss this with you -- that dad is driving -- but she can't discuss being a half hour late from dinner with dad. I need a road map of what you think dad should discuss with you and what your daughter should discuss.
I see where you got the wrong idea about this. I didn't write exactly what I had in my head. So to correct this, NO- dad should have discussed this idea with me first.
As far as the power the girls had previously. That was given by the judge based on getting to know dad. If someone were apprehensive, they didn't have to go.
That is all behind them now. They all seem to feel pretty good about the way things are going. The only thing similar to that now is our middle daughters choice to attend a tournament rather than a visit. (He can go if he wants....but if he can't, she can still go to her tournament on "his day")

And your daughter can save up if she really wants and buy a new bed or a desk or a computer or a television or anything else.
Yep, she sure can. BUT, she is NOT getting a TV in her room, nor a computer for internet. After money has been spent on a new mattress she's not putting a new bed there either. I am the adult here. She doesn't get to decide these things. Nor does her dad get to decide what goes in MY house. He's more than welcome to buy any of those things for her in HIS house.

Not seeing the problem here except for possible a control issue. Sounds to me as if you made the mountain not him - you should be proud that she is learning to be responsible enough to call you if she is going to be late - dad is teaching her (imo) to do the right thing.

As far as the $50.00 - it's not like she can do the shopping - she would have to ask you to take her right? I guess I am just not seeing the issue here either.

Sounds like you feel you are being "one upped" by dad...

 

[californiamom3]

you should be proud that she is learning to be responsible enough to call you if she is going to be late - dad is teaching her (imo) to do the right thing.
SHE is not responsible for telling me that HE is running late with his visitation.

As far as the $50.00 - it's not like she can do the shopping - she would have to ask you to take her right? I guess I am just not seeing the issue here either.
And when she saves up enough of his money to buy a bed to put in my house, I will have to be the bad guy and tell her no.... Again. So be it eh? ( the bed they have plan on buying is not the same size as her new mattress)

Sounds like you feel you are being "one upped" by dad...
Dad can take them the the zoo and and fancy diners all he wants. I know that's he's trying to make up for lost time. He was gone for 5 years. He can do what he wants on his time.
And while you think he's trying to teach one responsibility he's teaching the other to lie?!

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

I will have to be the bad guy and tell her no.... Again. So be it eh? ( the bed they have plan on buying is not the same size as her new mattress)
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How about when she has all the money saved up instead of anyone having to be the bad guy, just let her know that when it is time to buy new furniture for her room, she will have the money already put aside so that she can get the bed she wants. No one says that she gets to get the bed when she is ready, it can be on your time. Instead of treating it like a bad thing, just look at it as if dad is trying to help you so that when it is time to upgrade, which if she is ten now will probably be in a few years...most fourteen year olds do not have the same taste they did when they were ten, the funds will already be there.

It is easy to automatically have your guard up and treat everything thing this man does as being against you. Tell your daughter that you are not mad that her father gave her money, and never will be. Her father is allowed to give her money without you being privy to it. Do you tell her father every time you give her money or buy her things. She has to know that it is okay to have a relationship with her father separate from you. Is it okay if he allows her to smoke and tells her not to tell you? No, because she isn't legally allowed to smoke. Is it okay for him to be inappropriate with her and tell her not to tell you, NO. Can he give her money and tell her not to tell you? Yes, he can. It is his money to do with as he wishes. My ten year old came home from his dad's over the summer with money and I never asked him about it. That was between him and his dad and was really none of my business.

Let him get the 16 year old a limo. Who is it going to hurt, you? No...the only thing that you are going to accomplish by not allowing him to do this for his daughter is you are going to hurt her. She is looking forward to this, and why does it matter who pays for it. Smile, be happy that your daughter gets to experience this and move on. If she told you her date's dad rented a limo and was going to drive her and her date, would you react this same way?

You say you don't feel it is okay to pull out the 20 questions when they get home...don't do it. Just stop yourself from doing so. If your kids want to talk to you about their visit with their dad they will. Let your kids enjoy their relationship with their father after his five year absence and be happy that he is now being actively involved in their lives.

 

[californiamom3]

How about when she has all the money saved up instead of anyone having to be the bad guy, just let her know that when it is time to buy new furniture for her room, she will have the money already put aside so that she can get the bed she wants. No one says that she gets to get the bed when she is ready, it can be on your time. Instead of treating it like a bad thing, just look at it as if dad is trying to help you so that when it is time to upgrade, which if she is ten now will probably be in a few years...most fourteen year olds do not have the same taste they did when they were ten, the funds will already be there. This is a great idea!

I was not mad about him giving her money and I did not react angrily.
I did not say no to the limo. I am upset that dad planned this event on my time without speaking to me.
Hypothetically: Dad has girls on the day of prom. He has a plan in place. Who's going where and when. Other kids and company are going to be there getting ready and enjoying Halloween. Next time dad has kids daughter announces that mom is going to pick everybody up and take them to the dance.
Not cool! Mom should have talked with dad first. Especially when it was dads day.
I don't think it's right to pull 20 questions, so I don't.

 

[wileybunch]

Sorry, I don't think Mom has control issues here.
The issue is Dad's overrunning, putting Mom in this position.
Honestly? A parent that is THAT determined to try to look like the good guy AND make you look like the bad guy can easily play into the narcissistic tendencies of children so there's a very good chance Dad can succeed at getting (fickle) allegiance from the kids via material things. There may not be anything you can do about it's on his time, his dime.

These things he's doing on your time, though -- I would make it clear he needs to cease and desist and I don't think this is an issue of "choosing which hill to die on". I'd try doing it in a businesslike manner, but if that gets nowhere, I'd make it official and I would go back to court on this.

 

[AkersTile]

I'm definitely not seeing a problem with Dad taking DD to the dance in a limo. Look at it this way. She's getting to ride in the limo so her and her friends will be happy. Dad will be there so there will be parental supervision. Why DD is excited about Dad driving her in a limo I don't understand (Does anyone else remember being a teenager?) but Mom should be happy that there will be an adult present from time of pick up to time of drop off.

As far as other kiddo wanting to save up for a bed, let her save the money. When you and she are ready to redo her room, she can do it how she wants (within reason). They also have these really cool dot sticky things at WalMart and I'm sure other places and other designs so she can decorate her room without changing the paint, carpet, etc.

 

[profmum]

Sorry, I don't think Mom has control issues here.
The issue is Dad's overrunning, putting Mom in this position.
Honestly? A parent that is THAT determined to try to look like the good guy AND make you look like the bad guy can easily play into the narcissistic tendencies of children so there's a very good chance Dad can succeed at getting (fickle) allegiance from the kids via material things. There may not be anything you can do about it's on his time, his dime.QUOTE]

And if Dad can truly succeed in changing the kids affections/allegiance, however fickle they are, after a 5 year absence, then Mum has done a terrible job of raising these kids.

This Mum has control issues, she seems to completely resent Dad's re-entry into their lives as loudly as she protests otherwise. I am not saying Dad's a peach, but Mum is hell bent on making an issue out of everything and picking every battle and creating ones that do not need to exist as evidenced by this post. Loooong, miserable road for Mum ahead unless there is a major attitude adjustment.