summer vacation issues, complicated

[onebreath]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I have a strange problem with summer vacation periods with our daughter. My ex and I underwent a full fledged custody/psych eval 6 and 1/2 years ago, when our daughter was 2 1/2 years old. Since then, in the midst of ongoing custody disputes (I should state always on my ex's end) I would come back to lets bring in the same custody evaluator to remedy our disputes....one time we even agreed in a court order to accept whatever actions the evaluator deemed appropriate.

Between constant court actions at the time, on the part of my ex, plus the custody evaluator's recommendations...our vacation times with our daughter are all screwed up.

The initial, and still standing order is that we could each take two one week periods of time or a two week period of time with daughter for vacation, BUT only in July or August. ***Her school lets out in early June. Father requested later, based on no experience from me but fear, that the evaluator dictate when we start our vacation times. So the evaluator dictated to the court that we start our vacation times on our longest custodial period.

Father later requested that we alternate when we request our vacation times. When father requests first, he splits his vacation periods to two one week periods of time. Given that, often there is no time left I can take my vacation period with daughter.

***Each time I take vacation with daughter is the one time I can see my father and sisters and daughters cousins back east....so I need the two week period of time.

I want to take back to court this fall how untenable this court order is. Daughters schedules is as follows:
week 1: Wednesday and Thursday with dad.
week 2: Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday through Monday am with dad.

Its complicated which is how I guess this all came to be...one needs a calender in hand to figure out the ramifications.

I want to absolve the order that vacations begin with the parents major custodial time, or request that dad and I always take our vacations with daughter in two week chunks...and especially request that vacation times may begin as soon as the day after school lets out in June...relaxing each other abilities to take vacations better. So far ex has refused that.

He took me to court once when I took daughter on our two week vacation (the ONLY time left to take her via court order) and we returned two days before school starts. Now she has to return from any vacation one week prior to school starting. He also doesn't believe in one of us taking daughter for vacation in June immediately after school (?!) so the only way to get that changed is by going to court.

My main fear about going to court is his attorney. They always request unexpected bukus of stuff out in the hallway and hammer me, and I am pro se at this point. Is it fair for attorneys to bring up issues the day of court? Should have asked that years ago.

Thanks for any imput. Miserable with summer vacations.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[Ohiogal]

yes it is fair but not necessarily nice. Here is the thing -- why don't you go back to court and request mediation and at mediation suggest a week on/week off schedule. Same amount of time as now but not as complicated. No attorneys necessary.

 

[profmum]

yes it is fair but not necessarily nice. Here is the thing -- why don't you go back to court and request mediation and at mediation suggest a week on/week off schedule. Same amount of time as now but not as complicated. No attorneys necessary.

I would completely concur, we switched to a week on, week off a few months and after a few adjustment cycles for our 4.5 yr old DD, it has really been working well for her and for us!
and makes taking vacation time much easier!

 

[LdiJ]

I would completely concur, we switched to a week on, week off a few months and after a few adjustment cycles for our 4.5 yr old DD, it has really been working well for her and for us!
and makes taking vacation time much easier!

Except that she said that she needs a two week block for vacation.

However, you could modify the schedule for summer only. You could set things up so that dad has 2 weeks in June, 2 weeks in July and 1 week in August (prior to school starting) and all of the rest of the summer is yours (or switch June and August if appropriate), and you do the other schedule only during the school year. You can set up the weeks specifically so that they are blocks of time, and that would leave you free to travel during your blocks.

 

[Humusluvr]

yes it is fair but not necessarily nice. Here is the thing -- why don't you go back to court and request mediation and at mediation suggest a week on/week off schedule. Same amount of time as now but not as complicated. No attorneys necessary.

I think she is saying she needs to have a two week vacation period in order to visit family in summer - but that ex purposefully schedules his two one-week vacations so as to not allow this to happen.

I agree with mediation being the answer - and if you have your facts straight - then pro se against a lawyer is completely do-able. Remember - they are professional at this. They know how to immediately, without missing a beat, pick a fight or make an argument. You are allowed to take a moment, look at your notes, and compose your answer. Don't let them fluster you. Excuse yourself for a drink of water or go to the restroom if you need to - but remain calm and composed at all times.

 

[nextwife]

I think she is saying she needs to have a two week vacation period in order to visit family in summer -

I'm confused, however, on why she can't visit family in a one week block. I have a sib on the west coast, and she never spends more than one week here at a time (where all the rest of the family is) on her family visits. My husband has a cousin on a different continent, and his visits to our family with his family are only one week.

 

[Humusluvr]

I'm confused, however, on why she can't visit family in a one week block. I have a sib on the west coast, and she never spends more than one week here at a time (where all the rest of the family is) on her family visits. My husband has a cousin on a different continent, and his visits to our family with his family are only one week.

CA to the East Coast (where fam is) is a longgggg drive for one week of vacation. Not everyone flies.

 

[stealth2]

Why did you need to start a new thread, rather than continue with the one you started ~a month ago? https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=417102

 

[LdiJ]

I'm confused, however, on why she can't visit family in a one week block. I have a sib on the west coast, and she never spends more than one week here at a time (where all the rest of the family is) on her family visits. My husband has a cousin on a different continent, and his visits to our family with his family are only one week.

There could be any number of reasons, or it could be just a desire to have that much time with family. Just because you and your husband's relatives don't spend more than a week at a time with each other, doesn't mean that other families don't do things differently.

 

[profmum]

I'm confused, however, on why she can't visit family in a one week block. I have a sib on the west coast, and she never spends more than one week here at a time (where all the rest of the family is) on her family visits. My husband has a cousin on a different continent, and his visits to our family with his family are only one week.

I am sorry, this is not a solution.. she limits her time with her family because the ex is playing games?

 

[profmum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I
My main fear about going to court is his attorney. They always request unexpected bukus of stuff out in the hallway and hammer me, and I am pro se at this point. Is it fair for attorneys to bring up issues the day of court?

They can try to bring out newer issues in Court, but you can object. Courts dont like surprisis. As for intimidation, my attny gave me some great advice:
a. just because he says it, does not mean it is true (ie you are a lying, horrible Mum!)
b. just because he pounds the table and demands that the "Court should do this or that", does not mean he will get it.
c. My favorite: you are not going to convince him of anything, when testifying, answer the question, dont try and convince him of anything.

Ignore him in the hallaway

 

[onebreath]

Gee, thanks for all the feedback, thats really nice. I haven't been online much and just decided to check my post.

Two summers ago I basically did 'allow' a 50/50 summer. It would be easier for vacations if we did a 2 week on off thing in the summer, I will seriously consider that. And going with that course is dropping all restrictions around summer vacations, except for them not to exceed 2 weeks.

I do worry about court. His attorney is very sneaky minded, VERY invested in her clients case, and as one attorney said to me "she has succeeded in making the court think you are a witch". She is very savvy (expensive) and grossly manipulative - so many lies fly out the courtroom and I have been kind of trained by attorneys to let them go...my last attorney was savvy enough to defend me back, but no attorney I have worked with has encouraged me (to their credit I think) to play tricks....come in at the last minute with a list...etc.

I have gotten slammed in court repeatedly by this attorney. I have not had super strong attorneys. His attorney has got me pinned in a corner in so many ways. 2nd court date she convinced the judge I threatened to move with baby, which I never did. I immediately got court ordered to stay in this county. Later, in a trial, #5 of 30 items my ex's attorney represented is that I cannot ever move more than 10 miles further away than I currently am now. I said no, its a miracle to find a place affordable to live and if I find a better home for me and daughter than I have now, I will move....doesn't affect childs relat with dad....she hammered me. My attorney actually encouraged me to go along with it!!!!

Ok, I am b**ching, sorry...but its really been a trip. After reading posts I realize the biggest support I need is confidence how to handle ex's attorney in court, esp around bringing up false accusations in front of the judge, and more exp., hammering me with new requests when we are out in the hallway. Do I object in the hall? Do I inform the judge that points 1 and 5 on her notes sheet to him just came up today and I object to them coming at the last minute like this?

I am very aware of the time restrictions each case has....maybe 20 minutes for each set of parents so one has to be on their toes and for this reason as well I don't appreciate the often unreasonable, last minute requests his attorney brings up. Also, since I am prose, I kowtow a bit to the judge and I allow that to interrupt my being able to state my case forcefully.
Perhaps thats asking too much but any tips would be appreciated. My hope is 1. getting up the nerve to go to court, and 2. file when school starts so its done by Xmas.
Thanks, onebreath

 

[onebreath]

Addendum to nextwife's post;

I get two weeks of vacation per summer with daughter as does dad. I don't know where your relative lives on the east coast. I know going back to NC....it is always 2 flights:so a layover, plus a 2 hour bus trip, plus a ride to the bus area (20 minutes) plus another ride back from the airport (20 minutes). I have been doing this, with the exception of two years when ex was able to legally prevent any vacation time, since 9 year old daughter was 5 months old. Fortunately she is a "good traveler". In all that time, with much research into flights, coincidence with the bus that takes us to the airport, etc., I have never once managed to get the trip down from a total of 14 hours. Sometimes its been longer. This trip is one way. Then we come back and do the same trip. It is very arduous. It takes a couple of days to recover from jet lag, get on east coast schedule, and sink into the grove of things. I am not invested in going through all of that (plus the cost) to turn around and come back 5 days later. As it is, as ex will not change my pick up time of 10 am on the first day of our vacation, we lose one vacation day from 14 days to 13. 2 of the 13 days are automatic all day and night traveling days...so that leaves 11 days with east coast folks. For my daughters sake (who is court ordered an immed 48 hour visit with dad immediately upon return), I return one day early as she likes to spend time here before jumping yet again to another home, and I respect that...so that leaves 10 days with east coast folks.

My elderly father lives in NC, as well as older sister...who has 3 children. My middle sister lives in Virginia, where we also go visit, who has two children. There is extended family we rarely see a 5 hour drive to the coast, or hours into Virginia....very devoted and good relatives...because of busy lives and our lack of availability due to visiting with immediate family I am unable to maintain a connection with most of my relatives.

The reason I take the two weeks is this is the ONLY TIME EVERY YEAR I can visit my family, and daughter can get to know her cousins. I was raised to stay in touch with family, even though I moved 2500 miles away when single, and as my mom recently passed its important to me, my daughters best interests, and my father to connect and get to know one another. My father is the only grandparent my daughter has and he is an excellent grandparent (he does come for around 3 weeks over Christmas to visit us since my mom passed). My daughter is slowly forming at attachment to her cousins, and to her aunts here, and I think thats important. Her extended family with her father is immediately accessable and she has much closer relationships with them, which is fine, but I think she has the right to get to know the other side of her family, which I am proud of.

Personally, I would love to spend part of the two week vacation in Hawaii (if could afford) with daughter, or even here at home just chillin'. But again, this is ONE time of the year we can see family. I will never forget my grandparents as I got to see them twice a year....and I am so glad.

I have tried to figure a way to spend just one week in NC and haven't figured it yet. Both me and daughter are exhausted by the trip...she gets bored at granddads...no one to play with....but he has stood by me all my life and I just feel a loyalty. To stay only 5 days (one week visit) would be so superficial just visiting quickly with everyone....even with the 10 days there is flies by.

As another pointed out....this is not even the point...the point is ex making the trip difficult and sometimes impossible. But I thought I would write you back and explain as its been a bone of contention for me.

I purposefully did not move back east to be with family when pregnant....and have sometimes regretted that. I have lost most personal semblence of family support and have not seriously dated, while ex, from a wealthy grape growing family hammers me in court with his fancy smancy attorney. It hurts...I have been prevented from being with my parents hardly at all in their elderly years. Indeed, I did break the court order when my mother on her death bed and taken off her respirator....I took daughter and was there for my mom all the way through, and got bumped in court for it, which I understand, but the judge was lenient. Family is important, period...thats what the trips are about.

 

[LdiJ]

Are you sure that your ex wouldn't just agree to rotate every two weeks during the summer? If the two of you agree on this, then there would not necessarily even be a trip to court. An agreement could be drawn up and filed for the judge's signature.

 

[onebreath]

Thanks LdiJ,

Part of my problem (there are many I haven't mentioned) are that the last time we went to court, we agreed ex and I would make changes in email, which is how we communicate. However I can tell ex thinks that means more long term changes can be made by casual agreement via email...and I know this is not true. I have requested at least 5 times that for issues that come up, issues he brings up...that we be willing to write it up for a judge....and he always ignores me and says email is good enough.

I think I will have to go draft a proposed court order type deal and send it over email....or via mail...something to let him know I am serious about making legal changes. Not trying to be difficult, but this man makes the littlest request difficult. We have done coparent counseling etc., and its impossible. It took 2 1/2 sessions for him to be willing to TRADE with me some time so that I could take daughter to NC in June (outside of court order)....to stay at a very nice cottage right on the coast with all her cousins and aunts, uncles, grandmommy (last time we both saw her conscious) and granddaddy....a trip she will never forget and dad tried to deny because it was in June....and would give only if I gave him 50/50 custody. Later, the coparent counselor who witnessed this told the appt court mediator that he thought dad should have 50/50, despite the last sessions we had where counselor informed me in front of dad that he seriously thought dad needed years of counseling to be able to relate to females...

I got left hanging with this turnaround counselor. Hopefully in court (because the mediator always wants to talk to current counselors), daughters play therapist will relay she recommended more time with me for child, and dad denied. But I don't even trust that...all the super expensive coparent counseling and play therapy...no one ever really speaks up for daughter....its all about the parents.

I'm truly sorry to go on...its just been such a long ordeal its hard not to attach things to what is asked...and I still have a lot of feelings about how things have gone down.

BOTTOM LINE I don't know how to go about getting ex to agree to whatever, and then drawing it up...who writes out the plan, who submits it to court? If push came to shove, he will attach requests.....onebreath