What do I do now?

[passionatemom10]

Thank you all very much for your responses. This can be a bit frustrating because you guys don't have all the details and you make judgment based on what little bit of facts we can provide.

I am not going to continue to argue and defend myself over and over. I am by far nowhere close to perfect and readily admit that.

Once again, there are things going back 11 years. His dad chose to come back into his life less than a year ago. He moved here from Illionis, after not being near him or having much contact with my son for three years. Even when he didn't pay his child support during those six months I still let my son go over to his house. I didn't like it then either. I don't like him to be out of my sight to be quite honest. I am terrified of something happening to him.

His dad was ordered to bring him back by DHR after they had released him to his dad. Once they finally had the decency to call me and tell me that my child was not being harmed. Do you know what it is like to wait for your child to get off the bus and all the kids in the neighborhood tell you they don't know where he is? Do you know what it is like to call the school and not get an answer and leave a voicemail on every person's phone you can find? Do you know what it is like to call the principals home and not get an answer? Do you know what it is like to not have any idea where your child is and not get any answers from anybody? Do you know what it is like to finally get in touch with the person that has your child and them threaten not to bring them home? Well I do.

Yes, it is kidnapping.

I only want what is best for my child and I have spent 11 years raising him to become a respectful man only to have his dad come in every few years and fill him with broken promises only for me to once again have to clean up the mess.

You caught me, yes, less than 10 days ago I came on here and asked about sending him to live with his dad for a while. I have been being harassed and put up with so much bs for the last 11 years I wanted to prove to my son once again that his dad was full of bull. He may want to go live with his dad right now because "it is more fun" and "my dad said he would buy me a new motorcycle," but I know that it won't take long before his dad is up to his old stuff again and my son is ready to come home. That is why I asked if I should do it.

Believe it or not everyone that comes on here is not the low life scum some of you try to make them out to be. I am a very educated person but I am not an attorney. I came to you because the website offered FREE legal advice and right now I cannot afford an attorney. If I want to be called names and harassed then I can look at my phone and read the wonderful messages I have from my ex.

It really sucks to ask questions and get bombarded by accusations and insults from such educated people.

Once again thank you to all of you that have provided help in answering my questions. I greatly appreciate it and will further investigate.

 

[>Charlotte<]

This is actually a great site for legal advice, but there's very little tolerance here for people who just want to play games. On one hand you'd have us (and your CPS, and the judge, etc.) believe your ex is an evil kidnapper, but then you talk about letting your son go live with him just to show him how miserable he'd be.

You're trying to play word games, and what you say changes on any given day depending on what answer you're trying to manipulate. If you're that manipulative here, I can only imagine how manipulative you are IRL.

At this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Dad is a great guy who's just trying to be a father. What you've posted says a lot more about you than it does about him.

 

[TheGeekess]

You're lucky then b/c the rest of us get stuck paying for a mass transit system only a tiny fraction of the population uses.

Oh, the JeffCo residents and the employees working in the County pay for it, but nobody rides it.

 

[wileybunch]

There is no reason his father can't be part of his life. Because you are doing an all-or-nothing approach and putting up roadblocks to Dad seeing son, you are putting them both in a terrible position and you may well destroy your relationship with your son with your overinflated desire to protect him. And, you may well lose custody. Why would it "terrify" you for your son to EVER be out of your site? Does he never go anywhere, have any friends, etc.? Never mind, I don't want to know the answer, you just need to get some perspective on this before you lose your relationship with your son, emotionally harm him more, and lose custody. Stop being unreasonable. Or don't. Your choice.

You were never deemed the better parent, the more fit parent, etc. You need to get that through your head and then maybe you will realize it is not YOUR choice how/when Dad sees the child, he's his parent as much as you are and that is why you will lose custody if you don't change what you're doing and FAST.

 

[passionatemom10]

This is actually a great site for legal advice, but there's very little tolerance here for people who just want to play games. On one hand you'd have us (and your CPS, and the judge, etc.) believe your ex is an evil kidnapper, but then you talk about letting your son go live with him just to show him how miserable he'd be.

You're trying to play word games, and what you say changes on any given day depending on what answer you're trying to manipulate. If you're that manipulative here, I can only imagine how manipulative you are IRL.

At this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Dad is a great guy who's just trying to be a father. What you've posted says a lot more about you than it does about him.

Yes, you are right. I have gotten some really good advice from some of the members that respond to my posts and I have also gotten some insults.

You have every right to make judgments based on the information I provide. I have tried to hit highlights of the situation and end up "chasing rabbits" trying to get answers to the questions I have asked.

Maybe considering letting my son go live with his dad for a little while was a bad idea. I don't know. I am just tired of all the crap I am having to put up with from my ex. My son worships the ground he walks on and to be honest it hurts.

I have not tried to play word games or any other such games. I have only been trying to get a straight answer to serious questions I have. Once again you do not know the entire story or how indepth it goes because for me to write all of that would take days. I know when we get to court the criticism is probably going to be just as bad if not worse. You may think I am trying to be manipulative but you have no clue as to what my ex is capable of. I am by far not a manipulative person.

My son is the victim here and I am well aware of that. I made a horrible choice and brought a child into this world and now he is paying for the horrible mistakes that I have made. As a mother I would like to kick myself in the butt for doing all this to him. I hate that he has to go through all this. That is why I am trying my best to do what is right for him.

 

[cyjeff]

Yes, you are right. I have gotten some really good advice from some of the members that respond to my posts and I have also gotten some insults.

You have every right to make judgments based on the information I provide. I have tried to hit highlights of the situation and end up "chasing rabbits" trying to get answers to the questions I have asked.

Maybe considering letting my son go live with his dad for a little while was a bad idea. I don't know. I am just tired of all the crap I am having to put up with from my ex. My son worships the ground he walks on and to be honest it hurts.

I have not tried to play word games or any other such games. I have only been trying to get a straight answer to serious questions I have. Once again you do not know the entire story or how indepth it goes because for me to write all of that would take days. I know when we get to court the criticism is probably going to be just as bad if not worse. You may think I am trying to be manipulative but you have no clue as to what my ex is capable of. I am by far not a manipulative person.

My son is the victim here and I am well aware of that. I made a horrible choice and brought a child into this world and now he is paying for the horrible mistakes that I have made. As a mother I would like to kick myself in the butt for doing all this to him. I hate that he has to go through all this. That is why I am trying my best to do what is right for him.

Let me try to give you the straightest and clearest answer I can.

A court order for custody/visitation is just that - an order. It is not a suggestion or a guideline. It is a set of rules that is intended to be followed to the letter EVERY TIME.

If the circumstances that made that order work in the past have changed, only a court can change the order. You cannot change it if you believe the situation warrants it.

You do not have the power to change a court order. Only a judge can change a court order. Anyone else changing a court order can be held in contempt of that court. For the folks involved, a court order has the force of law... because it IS law for the persons involved. Judges do not look kindly upon folks that ignore a court order.

If you want to change C/V, you have to go to court to do it.

 

[passionatemom10]

Let me try to give you the straightest and clearest answer I can.

A court order for custody/visitation is just that - an order. It is not a suggestion or a guideline. It is a set of rules that is intended to be followed to the letter EVERY TIME.

If the circumstances that made that order work in the past have changed, only a court can change the order. You cannot change it if you believe the situation warrants it.

You do not have the power to change a court order. Only a judge can change a court order. Anyone else changing a court order can be held in contempt of that court. For the folks involved, a court order has the force of law... because it IS law for the persons involved. Judges do not look kindly upon folks that ignore a court order.

If you want to change C/V, you have to go to court to do it.

I am not trying to change custody or visitation. My ex is trying to change it. I have sole custody. My ex's visitation as stated in my original divorce decree (that has not been changed) says, "with my agreement."

My ex does not and has not had any type of "standard" visitation since we divorced. It has always been at my discretion.

Right now I am scared, due to what happened in May and the threats my ex has made recently, to let him go to his dad's because I fear he will take off with him. I have in no way broken a law.

When my ex moved back here less than a year ago he had changed, or so I thought. My son was seeing him several times a week. He had quit drinking. Things were going great until his latest wife left him. Then he decided that he wanted to my son to come live with him. So he conjured up a plan to do that.

I do appreciate you being straightforward but your answer has nothing to do with the questions that I posted at the very beginning of this thread.

 

[wnbama]

I am not trying to change custody or visitation. My ex is trying to change it. I have sole custody. My ex's visitation as stated in my original divorce decree (that has not been changed) says, "with my agreement."

My ex does not and has not had any type of "standard" visitation since we divorced. It has always been at my discretion.

Right now I am scared, due to what happened in May and the threats my ex has made recently, to let him go to his dad's because I fear he will take off with him. I have in no way broken a law.

When my ex moved back here less than a year ago he had changed, or so I thought. My son was seeing him several times a week. He had quit drinking. Things were going great until his latest wife left him. Then he decided that he wanted to my son to come live with him. So he conjured up a plan to do that.

If you are that scared, have you filed a PFA?
WomensLaw.org | Alabama: Court Forms

You can do that yourself. There are 3 pages to this:
ACADV Alabama Protection From Abuse Order Form, Part 1 of 3
ACADV Alabama Protection From Abuse Order Form, Part 2 of 3
ACADV Alabama Protection From Abuse Order Form, Part 3 of 3

 

[passionatemom10]

Hopefully I will not get bashed for trying to help you out. (I've dealt with DHR in Alabama for a while now.)

Is DHR involved at this point?

Then there is a case plan and ISP, Correct? If not then the case is CLOSED.

Do you have a copy of the DHR's policies for ISP's and closing cases?

Was the response from the X's atty something along this line: My clinet denies all and please provide proof thereof? Then asked for TEMP. visitation? The burden of proof is on him (if I'm not mistaken) he will need to meet the "Mclendon Stardard" according to what I have heard here in Alabama. Can you meet it? If not STOP WORRYING yourself to death.

Alabama does not have ALOT of supervised visitation "centers" I know of only about 3 in the state. Most are around $40/hr-$75/hr. Not sure what county you are in, I know one is in Montgomery, one is in Hunstville, one is in Anniston.

Please see these links:

McClendon standard:
Ex Parte: McLendon

DHR's ISP Policy:
http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.state.al.us/docs/hres/Microsoft Word - 5HRES47.pdf

DHR's Policy:
http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.state.al.us/docs/hres/MWrdHRES34.pdf

Thank you for the response. I just sent you a private message with a little more detail in it.

 

[passionatemom10]

Hopefully I will not get bashed for trying to help you out. (I've dealt with DHR in Alabama for a while now.)

Is DHR involved at this point?

Then there is a case plan and ISP, Correct? If not then the case is CLOSED.

Do you have a copy of the DHR's policies for ISP's and closing cases?

Was the response from the X's atty something along this line: My clinet denies all and please provide proof thereof? Then asked for TEMP. visitation? The burden of proof is on him (if I'm not mistaken) he will need to meet the "Mclendon Stardard" according to what I have heard here in Alabama. Can you meet it? If not STOP WORRYING yourself to death.

Alabama does not have ALOT of supervised visitation "centers" I know of only about 3 in the state. Most are around $40/hr-$75/hr. Not sure what county you are in, I know one is in Montgomery, one is in Hunstville, one is in Anniston.

Please see these links:

McClendon standard:
Ex Parte: McLendon

DHR's ISP Policy:
http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.state.al.us/docs/hres/Microsoft Word - 5HRES47.pdf

DHR's Policy:
http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.state.al.us/docs/hres/MWrdHRES34.pdf

I think DHR is technically out of the picture now. They came to my house and did an investigation when all of the stuff went on when he left with my son and said he was not going to bring him back.

I do have a copy of the ISP. I have followed it by the book. My son and I did our counseling as stated in the ISP.

The answer I got back from his atty was that he denied all the allegations in my answer to his petition and the countersuit. Then he asked for a temporary petition to modify the current visitation.

I am going to check out the McClendon Standard. Thanks for the helpful info.

I will also check into the other info you have sent and I greatly appreciate all the help. Have a great evening!

 

[wnbama]

I think DHR is technically out of the picture now. They came to my house and did an investigation when all of the stuff went on when he left with my son and said he was not going to bring him back.

I do have a copy of the ISP. I have followed it by the book. My son and I did our counseling as stated in the ISP.

The answer I got back from his atty was that he denied all the allegations in my answer to his petition and the countersuit. Then he asked for a temporary petition to modify the current visitation.

I am going to check out the McClendon Standard. Thanks for the helpful info.

I will also check into the other info you have sent and I greatly appreciate all the help. Have a great evening!

Technically is the key word. You should have had a 30 days eval BEFORE DHR closed the case. That would mean you would have a new ISP and an updated case plan. Then they are required to send all "team members" a copy of the revised ISP within 10 days AFTER the meeting. Please go read the policy for ISP I gave you and you might have to stay on top of DHR to get them to do as though they are suppose too. If it is CLOSED do you have a copy of the CLOSING ISP? Which I do no think they would close the case until Dad finishes his items. (I could be wrong on this one)

 

[2Mistakes]

Isabella, remember, this is Alabama: the "Thank God for Mississippi" state (because we're not last on every list, Mississippi is).

We don't have all the niceties that you guys on the Left Coast enjoy. Heck, we can't even get a mass transit system that can keep buses running on time, much less without catching on fire!

Hey! I resemble that remark!

OK, OK, you're right. we ARE last on every list. ::Sigh::

 

[onebreath]

This is complex...which makes it harder for the judge, I will frame things as I see them.

One...you really want dad to not have any visitation until he completes his counseling as (?) basically CPS recommended. MY understanding, which may be faulty, is he can or not do that...although I would assume a judge seeing that he has refused the counseling would wonder why/and or order it.

The deal is, with father petitioning the court...the court may revamp the past legal order and order a new one, based on what they see fit according to documentation and your representation. The point being, don't be too attached to the past status quo of you having sole legal over his visitation...even if the cps ordered counseling prior to visitation. A judge, based on fathers' testimony, or sincerity, or based on their mood, could order something different.

I am confused when you say father petitioned the court in August....where is the court date attached to the order? There should be a court date. If you do file a response, it needs to follow the legal guidelines for your state to be submitted before a certain period of time.

It sounds like your main case is dad not doing the counseling recommended, and your accusation he kidnapped child. I still dont quite get that...I understand your anquish.

I would focus on how and why dad did take the child from school and request repercussions should he do that again. Visitation guidelines need to be clear between both of you. If he violates the visitation order, then you can take him to court for contempt. But I would focus on appropriate visitation guidelines for both of you with child...and a specific request to the judge for sanctions should father ever scare you like that again.

One thing to get clear on, child support is separate...so far as I know anyway, in every state, from child custody issues. Given that fact...leave out any child support issues. Also leave out things like the past 11 years...while many may commiserate with you, a judge will not. You need to propose your case in the current present tense...that is what a judge will do...I would not talk beyond 2 years ago and only if applicable to your childs best interest RIGHT NOW.

Dad can bribe son...that will happen about anywhere...don't bring that up. You can spank the child...if brought up, what have you learned? It sounds like child is put in the middle...that means give the child some leway...if you are not concerned father is a day to day threat to child...then offer reasonable visitation to dad...otherwise the judge will order something you probably will not like.

I differ slightly on one recommendation here...I WOULD go ahead and file a response that is more lenient to the father child relationship. Awknowledge the importance of the relationship of BOTH parents to the son. Offer a reasonable schedule that you and son can live with that is not too disruptive from previous schedule.

AND, keep consistant on your requests being based on your need that father will complete the counseling by a certain date (court ordered), and that hallmarks are in place so that there are no "suprises" from dad.

It will go way farther in court...if the judge see's your change of heart and willingness he/she may be more willing to order some boundries for dad. I know its not what you want to hear, but the judge rules...and your prior legal status is exceptional...you dont have enough proof that dad should not be a viable part of childs life at this point.

If you do write another paper, focus on facts as to visitation that WORKED prior to the alleged 'kidnapping', and what worked afterwards...regarding your SON...no one else. The judge will hear that better than anything.

 

[TheGeekess]

In Alabama, it's legal to spank your children, and it's addressed by state statute:
"Title 13A CRIMINAL CODE
Chapter 3 DEFENSES
Article 2 Justification and Excuse
Section 13A-3-24
Use of force by persons with parental, custodial or special responsibilities.
The use of force upon another person is justified under any of the following circumstances:
(1) A parent, guardian or other person responsible for the care and supervision of a minor or an incompetent person, and a teacher or other person responsible for the care and supervision of a minor for a special purpose, may use reasonable and appropriate physical force upon the minor or incompetent person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary and appropriate to maintain discipline or to promote the welfare of the minor or incompetent person."
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §615.)
Section 13A-3-24

 

[wileybunch]

I think DHR is technically out of the picture now. They came to my house and did an investigation when all of the stuff went on when he left with my son and said he was not going to bring him back.

I do have a copy of the ISP. I have followed it by the book. My son and I did our counseling as stated in the ISP.

I don't think you have answered this ... was Dad *ordered* to do anything with regard to the DHR call he made to report you for abusing your son? Or were you the only adult ordered to do something for this case?