What is my obligation?

[LdiJ]

I am going to disagree with some of the responses that you have been receiving. The order was written that way because everyone (including the judge) was well aware that grandma will not always be available to supervise.

Therefore, I do think that puts some onus on dad to let you know whether or not the supervisor is available, therefore whether or not the visit is on. The judge would be expecting there to be communication between the parties as to whether or not the visit was on. The judge would not be expecting you to drive a one hour round trip, not knowing whether or not the visit was on.

At a minimum, if grandma tells you that she is not going to be available, you do not have to make the drive. However, I think that you could also let your ex know that you will be expecting him to let you know whether or not grandma is available, in advance.

Now, if he doesn't let you know, then I do think that you should contact grandma yourself, and find out whether or not she is planning to be available that weekend, since dad is not court ordered to give you advance notice, however, I am absolutely certain that you don't have to make the drive if grandma tells you that she is not available.

 

[escape2paradise]

I am going to disagree with some of the responses that you have been receiving. The order was written that way because everyone (including the judge) was well aware that grandma will not always be available to supervise.

Therefore, I do think that puts some onus on dad to let you know whether or not the supervisor is available, therefore whether or not the visit is on. The judge would be expecting there to be communication between the parties as to whether or not the visit was on. The judge would not be expecting you to drive a one hour round trip, not knowing whether or not the visit was on.

At a minimum, if grandma tells you that she is not going to be available, you do not have to make the drive. However, I think that you could also let your ex know that you will be expecting him to let you know whether or not grandma is available, in advance.

Now, if he doesn't let you know, then I do think that you should contact grandma yourself, and find out whether or not she is planning to be available that weekend, since dad is not court ordered to give you advance notice, however, I am absolutely certain that you don't have to make the drive if grandma tells you that she is not available.

This is what I was thinking, but wanted to see what others thought here. I know sometimes when your in the situation things seem one way, but look totally different to a fresh pair of eyes.

Given that the judge knows that GM is not always available and that GM and I do communicate, how or why would I be expected to make the drive on a maybe or a confirmation from GM that the visit isn't going to happen? Especially since the courts interest is the best interest of the child. It is not in DD's best interest to have it thrown in her face every couple of weeks that Dad can't be bothered to visit with her because it's not on his terms.

 

[waitinMd]

It is not in DD's best interest to have it thrown in her face every couple of weeks that Dad can't be bothered to visit with her because it's not on his terms.

I'd documented all the times I had to drive out and he wasn't there, along with the times you know in advance he is canceling and file a motion to modify the visitation to lesser visits. If he isn't going to come to his visits, maybe it would be best to have them reduced. My ex went from 3 a week to 1 a week for doing the same thing. It's a shame she feels she's not wanted.

 

[LdiJ]

This is what I was thinking, but wanted to see what others thought here. I know sometimes when your in the situation things seem one way, but look totally different to a fresh pair of eyes.

Given that the judge knows that GM is not always available and that GM and I do communicate, how or why would I be expected to make the drive on a maybe or a confirmation from GM that the visit isn't going to happen? Especially since the courts interest is the best interest of the child. It is not in DD's best interest to have it thrown in her face every couple of weeks that Dad can't be bothered to visit with her because it's not on his terms.

Well, here is where I differ a little bit on what you are thinking.

I am absolutely certain that if grandma tells you that she is not available that you do not have to make the drive.

I am absolutely certain that if grandma tells you that your ex absolutely won't be there, so grandma won't either because she made other plans, that you don't have to make the drive.

I am pretty sure that it would be difficult for a judge to ding you, if grandma tells you that your ex absolutely won't be there, even if she is still available. I am pretty sure that you would get off with nothing more than a warning, if anything at all.

It is more murky however, if grandma tells you that she is available, and will be there, but doesn't know if dad will show or not. Its the "maybe" that is problematic. On that one I agree with everyone else. On that one I think that you will have to make the drive, leave the child with grandma, and then hope that dad shows.

I suspect that that will happen less often than you think. Grandma clearly has a life, and she herself won't be willing to tie herself down all day Saturday and Sunday, based on a maybe.

If dad gives you a couple of months of a pattern of not showing, and not letting you know, (either himself or through his mother) that he will not be available, then you will be able to take it back to court to get it put into the order that he has to give you 48 hours, or whatever, of notice that he intends to exercise his visitation AND that the supervisor will be available.

 

[escape2paradise]

I'd documented all the times I had to drive out and he wasn't there, along with the times you know in advance he is canceling and file a motion to modify the visitation to lesser visits. If he isn't going to come to his visits, maybe it would be best to have them reduced. My ex went from 3 a week to 1 a week for doing the same thing. It's a shame she feels she's not wanted.

I understand what you are saying, however, I don't know that I want to make it any harder for X to visit. It is a huge inconvenience for us having to be available even though he has no intention of showing for the most part. DD does want to see him, though she does not want to have to see him alone.

It's so hard to know what the right thing to do in this situation is. On the one hand, dad is a druggie with significant mental issues, he hurts DD and brings negative things into her life. Do I feel he really has anything to offer her as a parent, not any longer. It would certainly make my life easier if he would just go away. On the other hand he is DD's dad and she doesn't want to lose what little she gets from him, at least not at this point. I guess I just want what will be easier emotionally on DD, but at the same time protect her the best I can.

 

[fairisfair]

Holy Cow....for the like 10th time this week I am going to agree with Ldij.

What is the world coming to?????? sigh......grin**************.


The order specifically states IF SUPERVISION IS AVAILABLE. and Grandma is the supervision.

Personally I also disagree with your attorney. Your attempt to clarity the order should NOT be seen as controlling but rather the opposite...as an attempt to follow the order implicitly.

No court expects you to make a 2 hour trip just to find out that no one is home, that is ridiculous.

 

[LdiJ]

I understand what you are saying, however, I don't know that I want to make it any harder for X to visit. It is a huge inconvenience for us having to be available even though he has no intention of showing for the most part. DD does want to see him, though she does not want to have to see him alone.

It's so hard to know what the right thing to do in this situation is. On the one hand, dad is a druggie with significant mental issues, he hurts DD and brings negative things into her life. Do I feel he really has anything to offer her as a parent, not any longer. It would certainly make my life easier if he would just go away. On the other hand he is DD's dad and she doesn't want to lose what little she gets from him, at least not at this point. I guess I just want what will be easier emotionally on DD, but at the same time protect her the best I can.

How much is she aware of her father's problems? Is she a teen who has figured it out, or is she a teen that is still in the dark? If she has figured it out, there are lots of things that the two of you can talk about, so that she understands that her dad loves her, but isn't in a good place right now and can't always be there for her in the way that he should...so that she understands that its not about her...its about him. Counseling would also help if she is not already in counseling.

 

[escape2paradise]

Well, here is where I differ a little bit on what you are thinking.

I am absolutely certain that if grandma tells you that she is not available that you do not have to make the drive.

I am absolutely certain that if grandma tells you that your ex absolutely won't be there, so grandma won't either because she made other plans, that you don't have to make the drive.

I am pretty sure that it would be difficult for a judge to ding you, if grandma tells you that your ex absolutely won't be there, even if she is still available. I am pretty sure that you would get off with nothing more than a warning, if anything at all.

It is more murky however, if grandma tells you that she is available, and will be there, but doesn't know if dad will show or not. Its the "maybe" that is problematic. On that one I agree with everyone else. On that one I think that you will have to make the drive, leave the child with grandma, and then hope that dad shows.

I suspect that that will happen less often than you think. Grandma clearly has a life, and she herself won't be willing to tie herself down all day Saturday and Sunday, based on a maybe.

If dad gives you a couple of months of a pattern of not showing, and not letting you know, (either himself or through his mother) that he will not be available, then you will be able to take it back to court to get it put into the order that he has to give you 48 hours, or whatever, of notice that he intends to exercise his visitation AND that the supervisor will be available.

I agree I would need something more definite from Grandma. The problem is she doesn't talk to her son that often and I hate to have her trying to constantly contact him to find out what is going on. I feel bad for GM, she really has a hard time with her son and this just makes things more tenuous between them.

 

[escape2paradise]

How much is she aware of her father's problems? Is she a teen who has figured it out, or is she a teen that is still in the dark? If she has figured it out, there are lots of things that the two of you can talk about, so that she understands that her dad loves her, but isn't in a good place right now and can't always be there for her in the way that he should...so that she understands that its not about her...its about him. Counseling would also help if she is not already in counseling.

She is in counseling right now and yes, she is aware of her dad's issues. The GAL informed her counselor, who felt DD should know what is going on with dad. I guess in an effort to explain to her why he does the things he does. Anyway, DD and I do also talk, more so now that the trial is over and she's not worried about outing her dad.

 

[escape2paradise]

Holy Cow....for the like 10th time this week I am going to agree with Ldij.

What is the world coming to?????? sigh......grin**************.


The order specifically states IF SUPERVISION IS AVAILABLE. and Grandma is the supervision.

Personally I also disagree with your attorney. Your attempt to clarity the order should NOT be seen as controlling but rather the opposite...as an attempt to follow the order implicitly.

No court expects you to make a 2 hour trip just to find out that no one is home, that is ridiculous.

Maybe I will try and talk to the attorney about this again. I thought the court wanted to limit having to constantly return. I do have to say that our case has been extremely complicated and high conflict. According to the attorney there just is no conceivable way to think of every "what if" ahead of time. He also stated that we don't want to inundate the judge as she has already had to process so much info.

 

[LdiJ]

Maybe I will try and talk to the attorney about this again. I thought the court wanted to limit having to constantly return. I do have to say that our case has been extremely complicated and high conflict. According to the attorney there just is no conceivable way to think of every "what if" ahead of time. He also stated that we don't want to inundate the judge as she has already had to process so much info.

I am really kind of leaning towards your attorney's point of view on this. I honestly think that you are going to need at least a short term pattern of dad being a no show (and without you knowing in advance so that you don't have to show either) before you are going to really be justified in taking it back. Its unfortunate that your attorney didn't try to get some notification period included in the order....since everyone knew that grandma would not always be available, so that would have been the "excuse". However, that didn't happen, so now I do think its better, legally, to wait.

I understand that what is better legally is not necessarily what is better for your daughter, but ultimately, what is better legally is going to protect your daughter more.

She also isn't a baby anymore, and everything is out in the open now, so you and she can talk. Its also an emormous lesson to your daughter about the evils of drugs. You can point out to her that if she avoids them now, she is less likely to repeat the mistakes of her father.

 

[mmmagique]

I would love for that, but dad isn't going to do anything to make my life easier and considering DD's feelings is not something he capable of. He is mentally ill and according to DD is plotting my demise as he has told her over and over again. I'm not dealing with anything close to normal here.

I'm a bit surprised that no one seems concerned about this. I, for one, am very concerned. Is this person capable of pulling this off? Where would dd go if this did happen? Is there any way to document the fact that he is saying this?

~Christina

 

[fairisfair]

didn't you say that the order hasn't even been written yet???

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Escape, I know that your attorney said that it would be controlling if YOU asked for notification. But, what about the supervisor? Where are her rights? Doesn't SHE have the right to know if she is on or off on a particular day? If **I** were the supervisor, I would be having a chitchat with sonnyboy.

A third party has been entered into your court order, so can THEY make that request?

 

[LdiJ]

Escape, I know that your attorney said that it would be controlling if YOU asked for notification. But, what about the supervisor? Where are her rights? Doesn't SHE have the right to know if she is on or off on a particular day? If **I** were the supervisor, I would be having a chitchat with sonnyboy.

A third party has been entered into your court order, so can THEY make that request?

Unless grandma officially agreed in court to be the supervisor, grandma can put any rules she wants on sonnyboy. She doesn't HAVE to be available.