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Adoption and Race discrimination?

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jebcat

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Louisiana

I am the Caucasian mother of 2 Asian children (through adoption). The incident in question happedn at an ENT's office being interviewed by the scheduling person trying to schedule a date for my daughter's tonsilectomy.

After choosing a date for her surgery and going through the details, the girl looked over at us and said "she's adopted?" Thinking she was just curious, I said yes. The girl then said that we (my husband and I) would have to give them a copy of the court documents saying that she was ours before they would do her surgery. I asked them why (my son has had surgery and we didn't need to provide anything like that). She couldn't really tell me why she just said they needed it. She said it had to be court documents, her birth certificate was not good enough.

When I got home, I talked to a friend of mine who used the same doctor for her daughter's tonsilectomy and asked if they were asked if their daughter was adopted. She said no. I asked if they needed to provide any proof that their daughter was theirs. She said no. I asked if the doctor's office needed anything (birth certificate or something). Answer no, nothing but insurance information, birth date and allergy info.

I called the doctor's office and spoke with the officer manager. I wanted to know why we had to prove our relationship but others did not. She told me that in "special cases" they ask for documentation. She sited that when a family is divorced and one parent contests the surgery, they need to know who can legally make medical decisions. I understand that, but there isn't anyone contesting this, my husband and I are married and both agree on the surgery. I asked if they ask all their families if they are adopted or if they only ask families who don't "match" and she could not answer. I asked if she were having her child scheduled for the surgery would she need to provide any documentation, she said, "no, because I am his legal guardian." I am my daughter's legal guardian. Then she just said, we do not discriminate in our office.

Well, I am being asked to provide information and paperwork that other families do not need to provide based on the way our family looks. We were asked questions that other families are not asked based solely on the way we look. Other families words are taken at face value and we have to prove our answers based. For the first time in 5 years (since our oldest child came home), I feel very much like we are being discriminated against. I would like to get some legal opinions on this and suggestions about what can be done (besides finding another doctor to do the surgery, which we are already planning to do).
 


nextwife

Senior Member
AS a pale faced mom to a bronze Roma daughter, I'd be ticked as well. I have NEVER had a doctor's office insist on a copy of our adoption papers, although I needed them during some international travel. And that's two eye and two ear surgeries. A birth certificate should establish the parent-child relationship.

I have never even had them question if we are the grandparents or the parents, or require proof, even though we are geezer parents (51 and 60 years old).
 

jebcat

Junior Member
Thanks, I asked if the birth certificate would do and they said no. I called the admissions department of the surgery center (since the girl implied that they were the ones needing the information). The center said they did not need either. A friend whose daughter had the same surgery, same doctor, same facility did not have to provide a birth certificate, so I don't think I should not have to either.

I don't want the doctor's office to get away with this. I don't want my kids to grow up thinking it is okay to be treated differently because they are Asian.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
The doctor has a duty to obtain the permission of Both parents and or legal guardians for surgery, in your case because you are of different races and posibly because they don't already know you/your family, they simply need some confrmation that both you and your husband have the legal right to sign for her surgery, if they didn't ask for thatit could be grounds for complaint or lawsuit.


§1299.53. Persons who may consent to surgical or medical treatment - [top]

A. In addition to such other persons as may be authorized and empowered, any one of the following persons in the following order of priority, if there is no person in a prior class who is reasonably available, willing, and competent to act, is authorized and empowered to consent, either orally or otherwise, to any surgical or medical treatment or procedures including autopsy not prohibited by law which may be suggested, recommended, prescribed, or directed by a duly licensed physician:

(1) Any adult, for himself.

(2) The judicially appointed tutor or curator of the patient, if one has been appointed.

(3) An agent acting pursuant to a valid mandate, specifically authorizing the agent to make health care decisions.

(4) The patient's spouse not judicially separated.

(5) An adult child of the patient.

(6) Any parent, whether adult or minor, for his minor child.

(7) The patient's sibling.

(8) The patient's other ascendants or descendants.

(9) Any person temporarily standing in loco parentis, whether formally serving or not, for the minor under his care and any guardian for his ward.

B. If there is more than one person within the above named class in Paragraphs (A)(1) through (9), the consent for surgical or medical treatment shall be given by a majority of those members of the class available for consultation.

Added by Acts 1975, No. 798,§ 1; Acts 1990, No. 484,§ 1.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
The doctor has a duty to obtain the permission of Both parents and or legal guardians for surgery, in your case because you are of different races and posibly because they don't already know you/your family, they simply need some confrmation that both you and your husband have the legal right to sign for her surgery, if they didn't ask for thatit could be grounds for complaint or lawsuit.


§1299.53. Persons who may consent to surgical or medical treatment - [top]

A. In addition to such other persons as may be authorized and empowered, any one of the following persons in the following order of priority, if there is no person in a prior class who is reasonably available, willing, and competent to act, is authorized and empowered to consent, either orally or otherwise, to any surgical or medical treatment or procedures including autopsy not prohibited by law which may be suggested, recommended, prescribed, or directed by a duly licensed physician:

(1) Any adult, for himself.

(2) The judicially appointed tutor or curator of the patient, if one has been appointed.

(3) An agent acting pursuant to a valid mandate, specifically authorizing the agent to make health care decisions.

(4) The patient's spouse not judicially separated.

(5) An adult child of the patient.

(6) Any parent, whether adult or minor, for his minor child.

(7) The patient's sibling.

(8) The patient's other ascendants or descendants.

(9) Any person temporarily standing in loco parentis, whether formally serving or not, for the minor under his care and any guardian for his ward.

B. If there is more than one person within the above named class in Paragraphs (A)(1) through (9), the consent for surgical or medical treatment shall be given by a majority of those members of the class available for consultation.

Added by Acts 1975, No. 798,§ 1; Acts 1990, No. 484,§ 1.


A birth certificate STILL should have been sufficient. It proves the parental relationship. If they are not requiring look-alike parents to prove they are THE legal guardian, then adoptive parents should not be required. My daughter's adoption papers are PRIVATE and not pulled out.

Number 6 is established via a birth certificate. Asking for the "how they became your child" papers is over the top. Only THAT she was the parent should have been necessary.
 
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jebcat

Junior Member
You are saying it is okay for them to pick and choose who needs to provide documentation and who does not. Oral verification is okay for families who look the same, but not families like mine . If all family members are of the same race than their answered should be taken at face value, but if they are not they should have to back it up with paperwork.

They would not take the birth certificate.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
You and your husband take the birth certificate with your names on it, picture ID, your insurance, and a copy of the section of LA statutes and explain that the law does not require adoption papers to give consent for this elective surgery. Remember, they may only be protecting the surgeon from potential lawsuits. When you remove something, you can't put it back and the first thing people look at is loopholes if there are complecations. Just go to the medmal forum and see how many time we have to explain why a poster doesn't have grounds for a lawsuit just because somehting goes wrong or have the hoped for result. I don't know how many times I had arguments from one parent trying to get therapy for their child without the required consent of the other parent.
 

jebcat

Junior Member
Don't mean to beat this issue up, but my final questions is:

Is it the doctor's office right to choose which families can give oral consent and which families must show written proof of their guardianship based solely on the way a family looks?

I could understand their being some question of legal guardianship in divorce cases (althought they didn't ask me if I was divorced). I could understand there being some questions if my name was Jane Doe, my daughter's name was Mary Smith and the name of the insurance card (which is my husband) was Jack Smith, but we are Jane Doe, Mary Doe and Jack Doe (our insurance card and license say the same thing and they did not ask for my license).

Their reasoning for not taking my child's birth certificate (which I still don't feel like we should have to provide if no one else has to provide theirs) was that when people are divorced the birth certificate doesn't show who has custody. I am still trying to figure out why any of this applies to us. This is not a divorce situation, no one has contested this surgery, both parents agree (along with grandparents and siblings), all of our information and last names match, the only conflict is our skin color.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
jebcat said:
Don't mean to beat this issue up, but my final questions is:

Is it the doctor's office right to choose which families can give oral consent and which families must show written proof of their guardianship based solely on the way a family looks?

I could understand their being some question of legal guardianship in divorce cases (althought they didn't ask me if I was divorced). I could understand there being some questions if my name was Jane Doe, my daughter's name was Mary Smith and the name of the insurance card (which is my husband) was Jack Smith, but we are Jane Doe, Mary Doe and Jack Doe (our insurance card and license say the same thing and they did not ask for my license).

Their reasoning for not taking my child's birth certificate (which I still don't feel like we should have to provide if no one else has to provide theirs) was that when people are divorced the birth certificate doesn't show who has custody. I am still trying to figure out why any of this applies to us. This is not a divorce situation, no one has contested this surgery, both parents agree (along with grandparents and siblings), all of our information and last names match, the only conflict is our skin color.
Your choice, play the race card and don't consent to the elective surgery for your child or find another surgeon who will do elective surgery without verifying that those giving consent are meeting the statuary requirements.
 

jebcat

Junior Member
I plan on finding another doctor to do my daughter's surgery and I would be more than happy to provide them with whatever documentation they ask for from all of their patients. One that is meeting the statuary requirements for all of their patients, not just picking and choosing.
 

fairisfair

Senior Member
I have to agree, that is a crock of crap! I have been a mother for over 20 years and have NEVER been asked to verify the parentage of my child at a dr.'s office. All the posting that rmet copied gave us is who is allowed to consent to medical care for a person. It does not give a dr.'s office the right to pick and choose who they will make provide documentation.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
jebcat said:
I plan on finding another doctor to do my daughter's surgery and I would be more than happy to provide them with whatever documentation they ask for from all of their patients. One that is meeting the statuary requirements for all of their patients, not just picking and choosing.
Did you notice that I kept using the term, "ELECTIVE SURGERY"? Why are you opposed to proving you are this child's legal guardian and therefore both parents are consenting to this elective surgery?????????????
Your posts are raising red flags.
 

fairisfair

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Did you notice that I kept using the term, "ELECTIVE SURGERY"? Why are you opposed to proving you are this child's legal guardian and therefore both parents are consenting to this elective surgery?????????????
Your posts are raising red flags.

what the heck difference does it make if it is elective or not, are you saying that if it were emergency surgery that the requirements should be different? and they aren't asking for proof of both parents consenting, they are asking for proof that these ARE the parents.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
fairisfair said:
what the heck difference does it make if it is elective or not, are you saying that if it were emergency surgery that the requirements should be different? and they aren't asking for proof of both parents consenting, they are asking for proof that these ARE the parents.
Ys the requirements for consent to medical treatment or surgery are different when it is an emergency. Non emergency requires the consent of of both legal guardians unless there is some reason only one parent can consent. This type of surgery is not routinely done as in times past, so when thereis an issue of consent, it raises a red flag. That is why I said to take the birth certificate, mom and dad's picture ID, insurance cards and a copy of the statute when they consent for surgery, this is for the child's protection.
 

fairisfair

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Ys the requirements for consent to medical treatment or surgery are different when it is an emergency. Non emergency requires the consent of of both legal guardians unless there is some reason only one parent can consent. This type of surgery is not routinely done as in times past, so when thereis an issue of consent, it raises a red flag. That is why I said to take the birth certificate, mom and dad's picture ID, insurance cards and a copy of the statute when they consent for surgery, this is for the child's protection.

I am assuming that you work in some capacity in the medical field, are you saying that everytime one of your patients has a procedure performed on a child that your office requires this information from every person?? Or are you saying that the appearance of this child is the "issue of consent"?
 
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