Avoiding communications

[LdiJ]

ldij, I agree, but only to a point. If the GAL is going to recommend open access to this parent BECAUSE he won't comply with court orders, then angling it the way Casa recommended might show that Escape is really looking out for the best interest of the child.

We all know the saying about leading a horse to water ... It appears that for the X, CONTROL is the biggest issue. He can't stand that others are telling him what to do, and by golly, he just won't do it.

I can't say that you are wrong...his behavior is certainly controlling. However I also can't agree that its all about control either. Sadly, his behavior may be a combination of control and a combination of money. Or worse, about neither. His behavior could be about wanting his child only if her allegiance is only to him. That does happen.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I can't say that you are wrong...his behavior is certainly controlling. However I also can't agree that its all about control either. Sadly, his behavior may be a combination of control and a combination of money. Or worse, about neither. His behavior could be about wanting his child only if her allegiance is only to him. That does happen.

I agree - that is the issue with my X. I firmly believe that a child has a right to love both parents and NOT have to choose between them; unfortunately my X is NOT of that same philosophy.

With Escapes X, he may love the booze and drugs more than anything. That has a way of skewing any thinking patterns there.

 

[wileybunch]

Dad's denying paternity now? What a choice specimen!

escape2paradise, just wanted to share an experience ....

When my husband took his ex to court last Aug for contempt, he had put into the order when he settled with her that they attend a cooperative parenting class. He figured she'd scoff at it and how he was just wasting her time, etc., but whatever -- do the time and maybe you won't have the energy after going to class and shelling out the bucks. It was 8 weeks, 2 hours/week, at a specific location across town, and cost $1300 per couple (steps were encouraged to attend -- thrilling -- but she would not have gone w/o her husband so that would have been her out of pocket). She put off taking class in the fall, said money was tight having to pay his attorney's fees (spare me -- he agreed to take it over 30 months) and so was time. Around the 1st of the year, I figured she was still not going to be wanting to afford it (right after Christmas), time wasn't any easier, and she knew she'd end up in trouble w/the court so I suggest to husband that he offer that they use the counselor that's already in their order to take the kids to and see if that made headway. Much easier b/c counselor schedules around your schedule and it's much cheaper. But, the reality it it's a much better solution to be in counseling vs. the class. It has been a MIRACLE what the counselor was able to do in short order.

Maybe you can work an angle like this, too, having one of these types of classes in your order, but you would have to be prepared to go yourself if it falls apart and he refuses a later offer to go to counseling.

 

[escape2paradise]

I do see Casa' points, I just think maybe she didn't recall all the history and that we really have already gone through the measures of trying to fix things before we got where we are now.

As for the X. He really has some mental issues and I'm sure the drugs have played a part. I am no professional, but he fits the antisocial personality profiles to a T. Right down to the having killed animals as a young child. He has never ever submitted to any authority. Not even as a child. He is an addict through and through, drugs, porn, stealing you name it. He lives for a thrill. He once told me that stealing and getting away with it was almost as good as the high he gets from drugs.

Believe it or not, he can be extremely charming. He is the ultimate con man. He knows how to pour on the whoa is me, I've been a bad boy but I'm changing my ways and I need your help. I have to say it has worked very well for him with women. He doesn't end up with losers. He goes for gals who are educated, good jobs, money etc...and he pulls 'em in. He did me, of course I was ohhh so verrrry young! That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

I don't really know his motives behind any of this. I am baffled, everyone who knows both of us is baffled.

 

[escape2paradise]

Dad's denying paternity now? What a choice specimen!

escape2paradise, just wanted to share an experience ....

When my husband took his ex to court last Aug for contempt, he had put into the order when he settled with her that they attend a cooperative parenting class. He figured she'd scoff at it and how he was just wasting her time, etc., but whatever -- do the time and maybe you won't have the energy after going to class and shelling out the bucks. It was 8 weeks, 2 hours/week, at a specific location across town, and cost $1300 per couple (steps were encouraged to attend -- thrilling -- but she would not have gone w/o her husband so that would have been her out of pocket). She put off taking class in the fall, said money was tight having to pay his attorney's fees (spare me -- he agreed to take it over 30 months) and so was time. Around the 1st of the year, I figured she was still not going to be wanting to afford it (right after Christmas), time wasn't any easier, and she knew she'd end up in trouble w/the court so I suggest to husband that he offer that they use the counselor that's already in their order to take the kids to and see if that made headway. Much easier b/c counselor schedules around your schedule and it's much cheaper. But, the reality it it's a much better solution to be in counseling vs. the class. It has been a MIRACLE what the counselor was able to do in short order.

Maybe you can work an angle like this, too, having one of these types of classes in your order, but you would have to be prepared to go yourself if it falls apart and he refuses a later offer to go to counseling.

This is something I have discussed with my attorney and the GAL. The GAL is the one who doesn't really want to ask for any requirements, as the X is unlikely to follow through. I think the counseling for all of us would be great. I dont' think the X will participate, but who knows.

 

[casa]

Casa, we all know that a parenting class for a parent who is darned determined to alienate the other parent is not going to be of any value whatsoever. It works for a parent who honestly has the child's best interest at heart, but can't get there on their own, but it doesn't work for someone like the dad in this case. This case is way beyond a parenting class.

The fact that dad is now insisting on challenging paternity is extremely "telling" of dad's motivation. If he really was motivated out of love for his child, the LAST thing that he would be doing at this point is challenging paternity. Even if he suspected that she wasn't his biological child, after all he has done the LAST thing that he would do is bring THAT up.

I don't think that you are helping the OP here....I think that this case is already several steps beyond that kind of advice being of any help.

This is a case where, and very sadly, a parent's access really does need to be restricted, for the sake of the child. I sincerely hope that eventually the court views it the same way.

Rather than just 'hoping' the court will eventually view it the same....I'm giving E2P some ideas on how to NAIL DOWN a timeframe/dates for counseling, which once he fails to attend will give MORE credence to eliminating visits altogether.

Normally, I may agree with you in a similar situation, but in this one the GAL is not convinced. The LAST thing E2P wants to do is get into a debate/conflict with the GAL.

E2P has been here a while, they can decide what is best for them....but if it were *Me*, I'd want to know &/or pursue every avenue.

My 2c.

 

[casa]

I do see Casa' points, I just think maybe she didn't recall all the history and that we really have already gone through the measures of trying to fix things before we got where we are now.

I believe I recall most of it....and I realize some of my advice is redundant, however, so are many of the Court's actions. (Not always, but definately in your case!) Sometimes parents need to just keep going through the process/hoops until the final resolution.

As for the X. He really has some mental issues and I'm sure the drugs have played a part. I am no professional, but he fits the antisocial personality profiles to a T. Right down to the having killed animals as a young child. He has never ever submitted to any authority. Not even as a child. He is an addict through and through, drugs, porn, stealing you name it. He lives for a thrill. He once told me that stealing and getting away with it was almost as good as the high he gets from drugs.

These are things the court doesn't always investigate thoroughly...hence Court Ordered family therapy &/or parenting class. NOT parenting class you 'ask' him to attend, or that you attend on your own...but the Court's ORDERING him to attend by X date.

Believe it or not, he can be extremely charming. He is the ultimate con man. He knows how to pour on the whoa is me, I've been a bad boy but I'm changing my ways and I need your help. I have to say it has worked very well for him with women. He doesn't end up with losers. He goes for gals who are educated, good jobs, money etc...and he pulls 'em in. He did me, of course I was ohhh so verrrry young! That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

Most drug abusers are charming. He's also gravitating towards competent women because he needs someone to pick up his slack.

I don't really know his motives behind any of this. I am baffled, everyone who knows both of us is baffled.

Don't try to figure him out...just work on resolving the situation by using whatever means is available.

I truly believe that you need to remain united with the GAL enough to properly steer them towards nailing down some deadlines/consequences for Dad. Sometimes that means repitition...but in the end it will only further cement the outcome.

And, considering the predicament you are in...what else can you do, besides just Hope the Court does x, y or z?

 

[escape2paradise]

Casa, I see what you are saying. I will talk to the GAL, see if she bites. Since trial is 3/25, I don't know if it will matter. I know she met with the X yesterday. After six months of not responding to the GAL the X calls her and wants to meet. I'm thinking it has to do with his new claim that he no longer believes he is dad. The GAL is meeting with DD today and she said she will be putting out a supplemental report before the trial.

 

[casa]

Casa, I see what you are saying. I will talk to the GAL, see if she bites. Since trial is 3/25, I don't know if it will matter. I know she met with the X yesterday. After six months of not responding to the GAL the X calls her and wants to meet. I'm thinking it has to do with his new claim that he no longer believes he is dad. The GAL is meeting with DD today and she said she will be putting out a supplemental report before the trial.

It makes me sick to my stomach that he is pulling the Paternity card...I think that should be VERY TELLING to the GAL.

It's been *my* experience that you RARELY go wrong if you keep in constant communication/contact with the GAL.

Let us know if you hear anything after the GAL talks to DD.

 

[escape2paradise]

Met with GAL

Hope I don't tick Mary off for reopening the thread. Someone closed it and it wasn't me. I wanted to give an update on the GAL.

We got a letter from the GAL yesterday afternoon before her meeting with DD. She said she had met with X. That he is willing to drop the request for custody, but wants typical visitation and would agree to a monthly UA. I spoke with my attorney and while I'm glad X dropped the custody request, that possibility was dead in the water months ago. I would love to work towards typical visitation, but definitely won't agree to it until after X gets the help the court has already told him to get.

Not sure what happened with DD and GAL. I talked with GAL afterward and I think our talk went well. I talked to her about my concerns with X and how I want to work towards typical visitation and how I thought that might be accomplished. I asked about co-parenting counseling. She said she agreed that could be very helpful. I talked to her about required follicle testing and a drug evaluation. X knows he can pass a UA with very little notice and GAL realizes this, especially after last summer. Anyway, I know the GAL gets it. She knows what X is and stated as much. She knows what he should do and is just baffled at his behavior thus far. Now it's just a matter of seeing what she says in her update.

She was very concerned about getting this over with. My attorney told her he would ask for a continuance at trial if the judge does not exclude X's testimony. I don't know if we actually will or not, that is up to me and I haven't decided yet. Tactically it sounds like the best thing to do, but I really really want this done. GAL thinks it is best for DD to get it done and get some kind of contact with dad going again. If it's continued, the temp plan with no visits stays in place. I hope that motivates the GAL to reconsider her position. X is not going to budge from his position if GAL comes back with no requirements. After her other reports and X not having complied, I don't see how the court would over look prior requirements just because GAL now knows he won't do them.

I'll update when I get her supplement.

 

[casa]

Hope I don't tick Mary off for reopening the thread. Someone closed it and it wasn't me. I wanted to give an update on the GAL.

We got a letter from the GAL yesterday afternoon before her meeting with DD. She said she had met with X. That he is willing to drop the request for custody, but wants typical visitation and would agree to a monthly UA. I spoke with my attorney and while I'm glad X dropped the custody request, that possibility was dead in the water months ago. I would love to work towards typical visitation, but definitely won't agree to it until after X gets the help the court has already told him to get.

Not sure what happened with DD and GAL. I talked with GAL afterward and I think our talk went well. I talked to her about my concerns with X and how I want to work towards typical visitation and how I thought that might be accomplished. I asked about co-parenting counseling. She said she agreed that could be very helpful. I talked to her about required follicle testing and a drug evaluation. X knows he can pass a UA with very little notice and GAL realizes this, especially after last summer. Anyway, I know the GAL gets it. She knows what X is and stated as much. She knows what he should do and is just baffled at his behavior thus far. Now it's just a matter of seeing what she says in her update.

She was very concerned about getting this over with. My attorney told her he would ask for a continuance at trial if the judge does not exclude X's testimony. I don't know if we actually will or not, that is up to me and I haven't decided yet. Tactically it sounds like the best thing to do, but I really really want this done. GAL thinks it is best for DD to get it done and get some kind of contact with dad going again. If it's continued, the temp plan with no visits stays in place. I hope that motivates the GAL to reconsider her position. X is not going to budge from his position if GAL comes back with no requirements. After her other reports and X not having complied, I don't see how the court would over look prior requirements just because GAL now knows he won't do them.

I'll update when I get her supplement.

Sounds fairly good so far. X backing down on Custody shows he's getting at least some kind of Reality check.

Your attorney should be ADAMANT about appropriate testing & also a TIME FRAME w/in which X is to COMPLY with any Co-Parenting/Parenting/Testing....or he forfeits his argument against supervision/restriction.

Do come back & let us know once you've received the supplimental report.

 

[escape2paradise]

Update and Thanks!

First of all I want to say thanks to all who have responded here. All the responses have given me different points of view and helped me tremendously to try and view a crazy chaotic situation from an outsiders perspective. Sometimes you just can't see things objectively from the inside, even when you really try. Also, a special thanks to Casa, I really think your advice gave me a ne w perspective which allowed me to better convey my position to the GAL. Your advice was right on the money!

We finally got the GAL report on Friday. She really surprised me.

She recommended a minimum of 3 mos. supervised with added requirements for X to move to standard visitation. Supervision is to take place at X's mom's or another family member. Visits would be every other weekend daytime only.

In order for X to move from supervised he needs to get a complete psych eval. and follow any and all recommendations from the evaluator. He has to have a follicle test done every 90 days and must show a negative result before supervised visits are lifted.

If after 3 mos. he has completed a negative follicle and is working on psych eval recommendations he would move to EOW unsupervised. Two weeks in the summer. Every other holiday. All other school breaks etc... would be treated as regular residential time. I was willing to do the standard, with school breaks and a mos or so in the summer. Evidently DD's counselor weighed in on this and feels that X should have shorter visits. I am sure this is because of the alienation issues. If X produces a positive follicle thereafter visitation is suspended pending further court action.

All in all, I am very pleased that the GAL is sticking to her initial recommendations and finally realizing that X has some psych issues that are not just mere stress from this situation.

There are many details that need to be worked out as Casa suggested. My attorney had me go over the recommendations and point out anything that we needed clarification or wanted specific timelines, etc...My attorney is going to consult with the GAL on specific guidelines. Who and how is any therapy followed up with. How do we insure that if X actually complies with the follicle that we get the result regardless of neg or pos. Also after talking with my attorney about how an eval is done, I would like to see 6 mos. supervised. As I understand it, an eval can take a couple of months to schedule and complete. I would like to see X have a few months beyond that to attend therapy, provided the eval recommends this.

We are heading into court on Tues. X did submit a witness list of a dozen or so people. Most of the witnesses are people he knows that I have maybe met briefly a few times. He does have his brother and sister on the list along with his mom. I think that is a big mistake given his relationship with his siblings vs. my relationship with them. There are a couple of witnesses from when he and I were first together. One I haven't seen since I was 20 yrs old, three years before DD was born.

This should be interesting!

 

[fairisfair]

First of all I want to say thanks to all who have responded here. All the responses have given me different points of view and helped me tremendously to try and view a crazy chaotic situation from an outsiders perspective. Sometimes you just can't see things objectively from the inside, even when you really try. Also, a special thanks to Casa, I really think your advice gave me a ne w perspective which allowed me to better convey my position to the GAL. Your advice was right on the money!

We finally got the GAL report on Friday. She really surprised me.

She recommended a minimum of 3 mos. supervised with added requirements for X to move to standard visitation. Supervision is to take place at X's mom's or another family member. Visits would be every other weekend daytime only.

In order for X to move from supervised he needs to get a complete psych eval. and follow any and all recommendations from the evaluator. He has to have a follicle test done every 90 days and must show a negative result before supervised visits are lifted.

If after 3 mos. he has completed a negative follicle and is working on psych eval recommendations he would move to EOW unsupervised. Two weeks in the summer. Every other holiday. All other school breaks etc... would be treated as regular residential time. I was willing to do the standard, with school breaks and a mos or so in the summer. Evidently DD's counselor weighed in on this and feels that X should have shorter visits. I am sure this is because of the alienation issues. If X produces a positive follicle thereafter visitation is suspended pending further court action.

All in all, I am very pleased that the GAL is sticking to her initial recommendations and finally realizing that X has some psych issues that are not just mere stress from this situation.

There are many details that need to be worked out as Casa suggested. My attorney had me go over the recommendations and point out anything that we needed clarification or wanted specific timelines, etc...My attorney is going to consult with the GAL on specific guidelines. Who and how is any therapy followed up with. How do we insure that if X actually complies with the follicle that we get the result regardless of neg or pos. Also after talking with my attorney about how an eval is done, I would like to see 6 mos. supervised. As I understand it, an eval can take a couple of months to schedule and complete. I would like to see X have a few months beyond that to attend therapy, provided the eval recommends this.

We are heading into court on Tues. X did submit a witness list of a dozen or so people. Most of the witnesses are people he knows that I have maybe met briefly a few times. He does have his brother and sister on the list along with his mom. I think that is a big mistake given his relationship with his siblings vs. my relationship with them. There are a couple of witnesses from when he and I were first together. One I haven't seen since I was 20 yrs old, three years before DD was born.

This should be interesting!

That is because CASA is marvelous. and she is also sensible.

 

[escape2paradise]

That is because CASA is marvelous. and she is also sensible.

I highly agree!