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Reena9 said:
Reena,
I hate to say it but I have found very quickly that this isn;t the place to get true good advice from anyone who cares. Most of these people (not all) just like to read this stuff and make fun of it so they feel better about themselves. And to respond to the person who said women don't go through pregnancy just to get money from men: Are you kidding me? There are thousands of women who do that exact thing all the time. Many will do it just to get more welfare money, since they get more with more children. Wake up and smell reality!
Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think CS sholuld be modified universally if the NCP should get remarried/start a second family. Every time there is a child born on both ends the CS shuld be mdoified to make sure all siblings get an equal amount....then maybe that would stop the "pregnancy welfare raises".
And this post secondary education thing.....WTF!!!!!! No judge is going to order married parents to pay for thier kids higher education! That is very close to the textbook defination of discrimination. My parents didn't pay a dime for my college......I did it the hard way and joined military first! Which would be the first thing i would tell my ex or a judge if they try to make me pay. i strongly feel that making a child work for thier education teaches them responsibility!
I think CS sholuld be modified universally if the NCP should get remarried/start a second family. Every time there is a child born on both ends the CS shuld be mdoified to make sure all siblings get an equal amount....then maybe that would stop the "pregnancy welfare raises".
And this post secondary education thing.....WTF!!!!!! No judge is going to order married parents to pay for thier kids higher education! That is very close to the textbook defination of discrimination. My parents didn't pay a dime for my college......I did it the hard way and joined military first! Which would be the first thing i would tell my ex or a judge if they try to make me pay. i strongly feel that making a child work for thier education teaches them responsibility!
O
Oh man
Guest
So he pays $1,600 for CS. The problem here is $1,600 should be half of what it takes to raise the child so the mother who makes $8.00hr should spend $1,600 a month just for the child as well.
$8.00 an hour X 40 hours a week= $320.00 X 4 = $1,280.00 after taxes around $900.00
His child support is also taking care of the mother as well. That is what is horse crap about the law. Where is the mother responsibility here?
$900.00 is not very much so the state makes the father pay to get the mother out of poverty. I know the kid should not have to live in poverty but that is life sometimes, what about the kids who do live in poverty right now? The parents who get "a little" help from the state "welfare". I bet they don't get $1,600 for a kid to get out of the ghetto! If the state was really for the children would we have a ghetto full of kids or would the state pay the parents so the kids could have "A good school, A computer, money to go on school trips, Gold package for cable, call waiting, a nice car to ride in and so on".
But the money isn't coming from the state so it isn't a bother to screw over a father and make him bleed. Sure, $1,600 is a drop in the bucket VS $100,000 but on the other hand supporting a child and supporting both the child and mother is wrong. Heck, if the girl can make it on $9.00 an hour I am sure she can now quit her job and retire getting tax free $1,600.00
Maybe the state should say, if the mother cannot earn enough money to support her end the father should have the option to raise the kid. If he turns the kid down then the state should pick up the tab to and pay the mother to live better and not the father.
Honestly tell me $1,600 a month will 100% go to the kid. We all know the mom will dip into it.
$8.00 an hour X 40 hours a week= $320.00 X 4 = $1,280.00 after taxes around $900.00
His child support is also taking care of the mother as well. That is what is horse crap about the law. Where is the mother responsibility here?
$900.00 is not very much so the state makes the father pay to get the mother out of poverty. I know the kid should not have to live in poverty but that is life sometimes, what about the kids who do live in poverty right now? The parents who get "a little" help from the state "welfare". I bet they don't get $1,600 for a kid to get out of the ghetto! If the state was really for the children would we have a ghetto full of kids or would the state pay the parents so the kids could have "A good school, A computer, money to go on school trips, Gold package for cable, call waiting, a nice car to ride in and so on".
But the money isn't coming from the state so it isn't a bother to screw over a father and make him bleed. Sure, $1,600 is a drop in the bucket VS $100,000 but on the other hand supporting a child and supporting both the child and mother is wrong. Heck, if the girl can make it on $9.00 an hour I am sure she can now quit her job and retire getting tax free $1,600.00
Maybe the state should say, if the mother cannot earn enough money to support her end the father should have the option to raise the kid. If he turns the kid down then the state should pick up the tab to and pay the mother to live better and not the father.
Honestly tell me $1,600 a month will 100% go to the kid. We all know the mom will dip into it.
stealth2
Under the Radar Member
Your reasoning is somewhat faulty. The $1600 may NOT be half - it is a proportional amount of the whole based on both incomes. The parent with the greater income pays a greater share - WHICHEVER parent it is.
And again, you're using one brush to paint a vast group of people. There are as many crappy CPs as crappy NCPs. Conversely, as many really good CPs and really good NCPs - both of whom put the kids and their needs first.
And again, you're using one brush to paint a vast group of people. There are as many crappy CPs as crappy NCPs. Conversely, as many really good CPs and really good NCPs - both of whom put the kids and their needs first.
Careful now....this sounds like the old "needs of the many vs needs of the few" arguement. The reasoning is not faulty, the guidelines are. The situation the vast bulk of NCP's face is not that very much different than what our forefathers faced from England 230 years ago. then it was taxation without representation.....the majority of CSE agencies do the same thing......It doesn't matter what kind of lifestyle you have, they don't care. And anyone who says the NCPis granted due process and equal rights under law are fooling themselves.
Really, the CP's are not to blame here.....they are only doing what the system allows them to. The CSE industry (yes, folks that's what it is AN INDUSTRY!) is the big bad. Think about it....who benifits the most from family courts and divorce? Not either parents and certainly not the children. The LAWYERS!!!! The CSE Caseworkers!!! The Judges!!!! Don't you think it's in the CSE caseworkers best interest to keep everyone up in the air over CS. If the system had a workable plan, then we wouldn't need CSE caseworkers and they would all have to go out and get real jobs!
CS should be applied only to the child....wha the child needs....education expenses, health care, clothes. Rent, house payments, utilities, groceries.....these are all things the CP would have to provide for themselves anyway. I can see some small adjustment here (kid needs own room, cost a little (and only a little) more to feed 2 people instead of 1) but really.....1600 a month!!!!!! Heck, in my part of the country, that's about the average take home for the average job anyway!
Really, the CP's are not to blame here.....they are only doing what the system allows them to. The CSE industry (yes, folks that's what it is AN INDUSTRY!) is the big bad. Think about it....who benifits the most from family courts and divorce? Not either parents and certainly not the children. The LAWYERS!!!! The CSE Caseworkers!!! The Judges!!!! Don't you think it's in the CSE caseworkers best interest to keep everyone up in the air over CS. If the system had a workable plan, then we wouldn't need CSE caseworkers and they would all have to go out and get real jobs!
CS should be applied only to the child....wha the child needs....education expenses, health care, clothes. Rent, house payments, utilities, groceries.....these are all things the CP would have to provide for themselves anyway. I can see some small adjustment here (kid needs own room, cost a little (and only a little) more to feed 2 people instead of 1) but really.....1600 a month!!!!!! Heck, in my part of the country, that's about the average take home for the average job anyway!
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No, your missing the point. If it was your hubby paying support to the ex, I am quite certain that he would be paying alot more than $50 a week. Female's are nearly always treated better than males in family court. I actually had a judge tell me once "It is safer to place a child with a bad mother than a good father". While I won't mention the judges name as I still live in the jurisdiction, the incedent was in the 5th Judicial Circuit in Illinois. When I had my 12 year old (temporary custody, the Egg Doner was in some legal trouble with DCFS) I asked for CS and was denied because she was a SAHM....even though none of her kids were living with her and her husband at the time. When I was laid off, I asked for a CS modification and was denied because "my earning potential was higher than my unemplyment benifits" The same judge imputed my income for my skills at a "State average wage". The problem with this is that it throws the major urban areas into the mix....of course the jobs thier pay higher. I don't live near urban areas, i live in the middle of Illinois' great corn dessert! The same job here pays way less than it would in Chicago or Springfield (3 and 1.5 hours away, respectivly).
Because niether her or her husband work, thier only source of income is me! Thus I am paying for thier lifestyle, such as it may be.
Gracie3787
Senior Member
I wasn't going to reply to this thread and give my opinion, but after reading the thread I decided to reply anyway. The reasons that I am are as follows:
In the last 3 months I, and 2 of my grown kids have physically survived 3 major hurricanes while losing almost all of our material things- home, furn. clothes, picture albums, mementos, etc. It has made all of us think about what is really important in life, what our true NEEDS are, etc. We got onto the subject of the kids' childhood Christmas memories, and I was really surprised by what my kids said. It turns out that the Christmas that they most fondly remember is the year that their Dad and I were losing our business and had to go to yard sales and Salvation Army to get their presents, and our Christmas dinner was 4 Swanson turkey TV dinners that I put onto plates with fancy garnishes. (they were 10 & 11 yrs old). Yesterday I was relating a story to my husband about how for awhile my ex and I had to live in a 2 bedroom apartment and because we had a boy and a girl who were too old to share a room, we kept our mattress on the screen porch and laid it on the livingroom floor to sleep.
Then I read all of this thread, the question is, as the OP said:
What does a child really NEED? This is my personal opinion on that
1. A decent home with a roof with no holes, floor without holes, heat in winter, air in summer, with running water, 1 bathroom, safe electrical wiring is a NEED- an expensive home with 2 or more bathrooms, a bedroom for each family member, a dishwasher, garbage disposal, den, dining room, eat in kitchen, big landscaped yard, garage, etc is a WANT.
2.Enough modestly priced (Walmart, KMart, Target) clothes to be able to go to school 5 days a week, and to church or out once a week, some hand me down or thrift store play clothes, plus a $20.00 pair of sneakers are a NEED- 2 to 3 weeks worth of designer clothes plus $80.00+ sneakers are a WANT.
3.A few (4 or less) modestly priced holiday gifts are a NEED- lots (5 or more) of expensive holiday gifts are a WANT.
4. In this day and age a family (1) computer and 1 TV/Video game set are a NEED- a TV/video game and computer in each kid's room is a WANT.
5. Time away from home as a family, picnics, drives, walks, hikes, etc. is a NEED- expensive monthly/or yearly family vacations to theme parks, etc is a WANT.
The list goes on and on, but as you can see, there is a huge difference between a need and a want. All parents WANT their kids to have it all, and that is fine for the parents that can afford to do that, but IF a NCP cannot afford to give their kids the WANTS, then it is extremely unfair for the CP or any court to force the NCP into poverty just so that the kids can have WANTS as well as NEEDS.
One poster stated that they make One Hundred Thous a year, but are not living in luxury, this is something that everyone should do: go spend just 15 minutes in your town's homeless shelter, go sit at the public assistance office/ go to the thrift stores, etc- see what kinds of cars the people drive (if they have a car at all). Or drive thru your towns poorest sections- THEN, ask yourself if you live in luxury or not.
Gracie
In the last 3 months I, and 2 of my grown kids have physically survived 3 major hurricanes while losing almost all of our material things- home, furn. clothes, picture albums, mementos, etc. It has made all of us think about what is really important in life, what our true NEEDS are, etc. We got onto the subject of the kids' childhood Christmas memories, and I was really surprised by what my kids said. It turns out that the Christmas that they most fondly remember is the year that their Dad and I were losing our business and had to go to yard sales and Salvation Army to get their presents, and our Christmas dinner was 4 Swanson turkey TV dinners that I put onto plates with fancy garnishes. (they were 10 & 11 yrs old). Yesterday I was relating a story to my husband about how for awhile my ex and I had to live in a 2 bedroom apartment and because we had a boy and a girl who were too old to share a room, we kept our mattress on the screen porch and laid it on the livingroom floor to sleep.
Then I read all of this thread, the question is, as the OP said:
What does a child really NEED? This is my personal opinion on that
1. A decent home with a roof with no holes, floor without holes, heat in winter, air in summer, with running water, 1 bathroom, safe electrical wiring is a NEED- an expensive home with 2 or more bathrooms, a bedroom for each family member, a dishwasher, garbage disposal, den, dining room, eat in kitchen, big landscaped yard, garage, etc is a WANT.
2.Enough modestly priced (Walmart, KMart, Target) clothes to be able to go to school 5 days a week, and to church or out once a week, some hand me down or thrift store play clothes, plus a $20.00 pair of sneakers are a NEED- 2 to 3 weeks worth of designer clothes plus $80.00+ sneakers are a WANT.
3.A few (4 or less) modestly priced holiday gifts are a NEED- lots (5 or more) of expensive holiday gifts are a WANT.
4. In this day and age a family (1) computer and 1 TV/Video game set are a NEED- a TV/video game and computer in each kid's room is a WANT.
5. Time away from home as a family, picnics, drives, walks, hikes, etc. is a NEED- expensive monthly/or yearly family vacations to theme parks, etc is a WANT.
The list goes on and on, but as you can see, there is a huge difference between a need and a want. All parents WANT their kids to have it all, and that is fine for the parents that can afford to do that, but IF a NCP cannot afford to give their kids the WANTS, then it is extremely unfair for the CP or any court to force the NCP into poverty just so that the kids can have WANTS as well as NEEDS.
One poster stated that they make One Hundred Thous a year, but are not living in luxury, this is something that everyone should do: go spend just 15 minutes in your town's homeless shelter, go sit at the public assistance office/ go to the thrift stores, etc- see what kinds of cars the people drive (if they have a car at all). Or drive thru your towns poorest sections- THEN, ask yourself if you live in luxury or not.
Gracie
needs vs wants
In the case of divorce each kid is entitled to the lifestyle that they would have had --if the parents had stayed together.
That is how child support is based.
Child supports asks me to list out every detail that is needed to live each month.
The income of both parents are considered at the time of the divorce.
What was suitable during the marriage should be acceptable afterwards.
How the parents make their lives work is different since they decided they could not make it work.
Lets talk about parents need
I am sure you need a car--but really a second hand car will do so you really don't need a newer car.
Good luck keeping it in good repair.
I am glad you slept outside while your kids slept inside and I hope you are willing to continue to feel that way --so the kids will always be first
Learn to cut your own hair.
You do not need a break from your kids so forgo date night and let the kids head over to a friends house.
Homemade gifts are still acceptable--learn to be crafty. Everyone will apprecicate that.
I could go on but see my point and realize child support may be different for each kid just as it is for each career and marriage.
Keep this in mind for both parents really --because after all your heart really is with the kids and not that other spouse or ex is it?
In the case of divorce each kid is entitled to the lifestyle that they would have had --if the parents had stayed together.
That is how child support is based.
Child supports asks me to list out every detail that is needed to live each month.
The income of both parents are considered at the time of the divorce.
What was suitable during the marriage should be acceptable afterwards.
How the parents make their lives work is different since they decided they could not make it work.
Lets talk about parents need
I am sure you need a car--but really a second hand car will do so you really don't need a newer car.
Good luck keeping it in good repair.
I am glad you slept outside while your kids slept inside and I hope you are willing to continue to feel that way --so the kids will always be first
Learn to cut your own hair.
You do not need a break from your kids so forgo date night and let the kids head over to a friends house.
Homemade gifts are still acceptable--learn to be crafty. Everyone will apprecicate that.
I could go on but see my point and realize child support may be different for each kid just as it is for each career and marriage.
Keep this in mind for both parents really --because after all your heart really is with the kids and not that other spouse or ex is it?
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