NCP Visitation Rights/Tough Choices

[ETG]

And the father could make a point of communicating with his daughter so that he is aware of these activities well in advance. It is easy to put responsibilities on the mother and say "SHE is responsible for executing the court order". How about Dad simply being more assertive in his communications with his daughter. Nothing is to be gained from turning every issue into a "legal" issue for the courts to decide. He may win in court and get the mother held in contempt for allowing the daughter to have a voice--but he will lose in the long term.

The courts and certainly the attorney's DO NOT CARE what long term relationship exists between the parents and the children. They simply welcome confrontation and strife--not because it is good for Dad or good for the daughter--but it is good for their employment and balance sheets.

I urge this Dad to communicate with the daughter--tell her how you feel--sit down and look at a calendar of activities with your daughter--work on a plan that allows her to attend her activities (with you present) and also allows you to plan special time with her. Don't get locked into anything as children have a lot going on in their lives and to the extent that parents can support and be a part--that is good for them. As a CP--my whole schedule revolves around school activities, extracurricular activities, sleep overs and supporting my son's emotional and social development. I FREQUENTLY do things that are NOT convenient and at times interfere with what I would llike to do--that is what being a parent is about. A large majority of this investment in my child requires that I remain flexible and not locked into my own "personal" wishes. Keep the focus on your daughter and not on creating conflict because you CAN. Remember--you and your atty will likely win in court--by asserting that the mother "is not forcing the child to exercise visitation"--but you will not win in the relationship with your daughter --and the attorney and judge will not be able to ORDER your daughter to have a relationship with you when the mother can no longer be held in contempt.

 

[casa]

And the father could make a point of communicating with his daughter so that he is aware of these activities well in advance. It is easy to put responsibilities on the mother and say "SHE is responsible for executing the court order". How about Dad simply being more assertive in his communications with his daughter. Nothing is to be gained from turning every issue into a "legal" issue for the courts to decide. He may win in court and get the mother held in contempt for allowing the daughter to have a voice--but he will lose in the long term.

The courts and certainly the attorney's DO NOT CARE what long term relationship exists between the parents and the children. They simply welcome confrontation and strife--not because it is good for Dad or good for the daughter--but it is good for their employment and balance sheets.

I urge this Dad to communicate with the daughter--tell her how you feel--sit down and look at a calendar of activities with your daughter--work on a plan that allows her to attend her activities (with you present) and also allows you to plan special time with her. Don't get locked into anything as children have a lot going on in their lives and to the extent that parents can support and be a part--that is good for them. As a CP--my whole schedule revolves around school activities, extracurricular activities, sleep overs and supporting my son's emotional and social development. I FREQUENTLY do things that are NOT convenient and at times interfere with what I would llike to do--that is what being a parent is about. A large majority of this investment in my child requires that I remain flexible and not locked into my own "personal" wishes. Keep the focus on your daughter and not on creating conflict because you CAN. Remember--you and your atty will likely win in court--by asserting that the mother "is not forcing the child to exercise visitation"--but you will not win in the relationship with your daughter --and the attorney and judge will not be able to ORDER your daughter to have a relationship with you when the mother can no longer be held in contempt.

You have a good point at maintaining communication with the daughter~ But I know something about horse shows. They are planned months in advance...the mother not telling him until the week of, is not a reflection of the father not asserting his rights- it's a situation where he is not being communicated WITH...by the mother. The fact that these 'events' are attended on father's weekends and not ALL weekends also makes me suspicious. This event OP is talking about is a horse show- Not a competition which the child is competing in.

I don't think it's unreasonable to miss ONE event, when all along father has rescheduled his regular visitation time with the child in order to support her new interest. What if the father enrolled the daughter in an extracurricular for the weekends she's with Mom? I bet Mom would be complaining he's interrupting her parenting time.

And yes, I am a Mom. And even my youngest knows that "we can't always do what we want- Sometimes we have to wait to do things we want later"

 

[stealth2]

And the father could make a point of communicating with his daughter so that he is aware of these activities well in advance. It is easy to put responsibilities on the mother and say "SHE is responsible for executing the court order". How about Dad simply being more assertive in his communications with his daughter. Nothing is to be gained from turning every issue into a "legal" issue for the courts to decide. He may win in court and get the mother held in contempt for allowing the daughter to have a voice--but he will lose in the long term.

The courts and certainly the attorney's DO NOT CARE what long term relationship exists between the parents and the children. They simply welcome confrontation and strife--not because it is good for Dad or good for the daughter--but it is good for their employment and balance sheets.

I urge this Dad to communicate with the daughter--tell her how you feel--sit down and look at a calendar of activities with your daughter--work on a plan that allows her to attend her activities (with you present) and also allows you to plan special time with her. Don't get locked into anything as children have a lot going on in their lives and to the extent that parents can support and be a part--that is good for them. As a CP--my whole schedule revolves around school activities, extracurricular activities, sleep overs and supporting my son's emotional and social development. I FREQUENTLY do things that are NOT convenient and at times interfere with what I would llike to do--that is what being a parent is about. A large majority of this investment in my child requires that I remain flexible and not locked into my own "personal" wishes. Keep the focus on your daughter and not on creating conflict because you CAN. Remember--you and your atty will likely win in court--by asserting that the mother "is not forcing the child to exercise visitation"--but you will not win in the relationship with your daughter --and the attorney and judge will not be able to ORDER your daughter to have a relationship with you when the mother can no longer be held in contempt.

Loverly sentiments, ETG. You also have the choice of doing these things or not, and you do see your kids - for the most part - every day. This Dad gets what - 4 days a month? How pleased would you be to have someone else plan how you spend those precious days for you - and not have the courtesy to mention it?

 

[ETG]

Other than planning to go to work everyday--my life is essentially "planned" for me by being involved in and supporting my son's life and his interests.

I allow this to happen--not because I HAVE TO--BUT because as a parent--I choose to make his life, his plans and his priorities MY priority. It is not always convenient--BUT is the right thing to do as a parent.

 

[stealth2]

Other than planning to go to work everyday--my life is essentially "planned" for me by being involved in and supporting my son's life and his interests.

I allow this to happen--not because I HAVE TO--BUT because as a parent--I choose to make his life, his plans and his priorities MY priority. It is not always convenient--BUT is the right thing to do as a parent.

So you're saying that your son NEVER misses any event, practice, activity due to a previous engagement that you deem more important?

 

[casa]

Other than planning to go to work everyday--my life is essentially "planned" for me by being involved in and supporting my son's life and his interests.

I allow this to happen--not because I HAVE TO--BUT because as a parent--I choose to make his life, his plans and his priorities MY priority. It is not always convenient--BUT is the right thing to do as a parent.

We've already established that by your story- the question was: If YOU had 4 days a month only to see your child, how would you feel if the other parent dictated what you did or did not do with your child during that time? There is a reason the law is the way it is in this regard.

 

[ETG]

With regard to first question: My son goes to school, takes piano lessons, is in Cub Scouts and attends weekly CCD classes. He has never missed a class since I put these activities into my schedule--advise father of these with as much notice as i get and if something conflicts with father's visitation ask him to discuss with my son. That way--if my son misses on his visitation weekends--is is a decision THEY make--not my having to force visitation or tell my son NO. If he wants to tell him NO--that is his decision.

With regard to 2nd reply--"How would I like some dictating how I spend my time". I believe that in being responsible for getting my son to school every day--it is dictated how I spend my time. I have no doubt that if I pulled my son from school for my own personal pursuits or priorities--the father wuld be hauling me into court as not responsible and unfit to parent. My son is in 3rd Grade and has a perfect attendence record since Kindergarten. I'm fortunate that he is healthy--but would also not dare put personal wishes above what the court would deem propoer for a custodial parent to get a child to school everyday. I am also responsible for insuring that my son is prepared for school each day. Evenings are spent making sure he has completed HW and quizzing him for tests etc. Again, I have no doubt that the father would be hauling me into court were my son's grades less than acceptable. My son happens to be a Straight A student. Again, I believe IT IS directed how I spend my time--simply because I am a parent. And I mkae the investment with my son--not only because the father would haul me into court if I didn't but because that is my duty as a parent.

 

[critterperson]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Florida/CP is in Georgia

I have a question, well more of a dilemna, concerning the visitation rights of non-custodial parents. I am the father of two children, ages 8 and 14, and have standard visitation (weekends, spring break, alternating holidays, and summer).

Up until this week, I would have said that I have am extremely strong and solid relationship with both of my children. However, a conflict has arisen with my 14 year old child that has caused me great concern. The situation is as follows...

My daughter has developed a rather serious interest in horse-riding, and has been participating in several horse shows. This has become somewhat of a problem, because there is a show scheduled on almost every weekend that I am scheduled to have visitation. I have made very reasonable efforts to accomodate her interests, but I was informed Monday of a show this coming Saturday. I won't be able to take my daughter to this show, which is two hours from my residence. My daughter became upset (although she didn't act that way during the phone call). She has resorted to locking herself in her room, not eating, not talking to anyone, etc. Sounds like a typical "fit" from a spoiled child who is not getting her way, right?

Her mom nows says that I am a "jerk", an "awful Dad", and that the "world revolves around me" because I said no to this particular show. My daughter won't even speak to me on the phone. Her mother also said that my daughter doesn't have to spend visitation weekends with me if she chooses not to!

My dilemna is this....should I force my visitation rights? I don't want to encourage this type of behavior, but I also should mention that this type of behavior is extremely uncharacteristic of my daughter. She has never done this before.

I am put in the position of being the "bad guy" if I don't let my daughter attend the show, but I also don't want to encourage this type of behavior in the future. I'm also unsure of if a 14 year old can decide if she doesn't want to visit the NCP on scheduled visitations.

I'm really torn what to do! I am primarily asking advice as to my legal rights, but any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,
MrKee

Mrkee-
Do you spend every weekend with your daughter or just every other weekend? If you alternate weekends maybe your and your ex can switch this weekend and you can pick her up on a weekend that would not normally be your weekend with your daughter? Our children are small but the ex and I have a working relationship when it comes to the happiness of our babies.... Maybe your daughter could show up at your house after the horse show --- she can only ride for so long..... Legally you can hold your ex in contempt- but you would also be legally fighting with your 14 year old as well.........If you get mom in trouble for backing your daughter that could have lasting consequences, and could change your daughters view of the father she knows and loves................. The choice is yours.....Legal or Love Good Luck!

 

[ETG]

Applause! I could not have put it better myself and is what I have been saying in the back and forth replies with stealth etc. You are obviously a parent who puts your children first and the legal possibilities as DEAD LAST. Likely will put a lot of atty's our of work with your thinking! Good job!

 

[stealth2]

With regard to first question: My son goes to school, takes piano lessons, is in Cub Scouts and attends weekly CCD classes. He has never missed a class since I put these activities into my schedule--advise father of these with as much notice as i get and if something conflicts with father's visitation ask him to discuss with my son. That way--if my son misses on his visitation weekends--is is a decision THEY make--not my having to force visitation or tell my son NO. If he wants to tell him NO--that is his decision.

Okay. Suppose you had a family member die and the funeral was on a weekend and conflicted with piano, Cubs or CCD. You would skip the funeral to make sure your son got to his activity, correct? Or a (perhaps) less extreme example. Cubs Camporee is the same weekend as First Communion. Who gets to pick? Your son? Or do you make a judgement call on which is more important?

Fact is, when you are part of a family - SOMETIMES - life does revolve around more than one kid. In some ways you're lucky - you apparently only have to plan around one. Try juggling Boy Scouts, Cross Country/Wrestling/Baseball, Yearbook, Debate, Honor Society, Peer Mediation, Peer Tutoring, Girl Scouts, Riding, Art, Piano, Karate. On top of school. And family obligations. And, of course, visitation. My kids are busy, and for the most part they make all of their activities. But some things ARE more important. Spending time with their Dad. Celebrating a grandparent's birthday. etc. Kids don't live in a vacuum with parents always catering to their whims.

 

[AnswerMeNOW]

shut it, ETG

ETG...this is a LEGAL ADVICE SITE -- not a site based on personal opinions on EMOTIONS!! May I suggest a few things:

1- learning to read AND understand (because you're clearly not understanding what the OP has written)

2- open your mind. You already bring bias to this discussion.

You are adding absolutely NOTHING to this thread. We don't need your anti-man attitude here. It adds absolutely nothing. I'm personally sick of reading your responses -- which ARE opinion and not legal advice.

Butt out!

 

[haiku]

what posters like ETG are forgeting is dad is NOT another activity scheduled into thier children's schedule.

he is non-negotiable.

Qutie a few CP's come here thinking that baseball is on the same level as dads visitation time. its NOT. Baseball, soccer, horses, ALL, become dads decisions to make once jr. is in his care.

custody of the child reverts to dad for that period of time, and any activity during that time comes under dads domain.

Mom needs to bundle up 'the brat', and send her off to dad, than dad gets to deal with his child the way he sees fit. And if he planned for weeks to go to grandma's or a paperclip convention on his time with his kids it is now his right, to say "no" to a horse show, just as mom reserves that right on her time.

Dads like moms, get to decide what kind of meanie they want to be on thier time. And it is not up to the other parent to judge thier choice.

And honestly I am not seeing much meaness here. I am seeing a lesson in responsibility. (Want to go somewhere? Be considerate of others time and ask as soon as you know so plans can be made accordingly)

 

[casa]

With regard to first question: My son goes to school, takes piano lessons, is in Cub Scouts and attends weekly CCD classes. He has never missed a class since I put these activities into my schedule--advise father of these with as much notice as i get and if something conflicts with father's visitation ask him to discuss with my son. That way--if my son misses on his visitation weekends--is is a decision THEY make--not my having to force visitation or tell my son NO. If he wants to tell him NO--that is his decision.

No, it's NOT the child's decision- That's the point you are missing.

With regard to 2nd reply--"How would I like some dictating how I spend my time". I believe that in being responsible for getting my son to school every day--it is dictated how I spend my time. I have no doubt that if I pulled my son from school for my own personal pursuits or priorities--the father wuld be hauling me into court as not responsible and unfit to parent. My son is in 3rd Grade and has a perfect attendence record since Kindergarten. I'm fortunate that he is healthy--but would also not dare put personal wishes above what the court would deem propoer for a custodial parent to get a child to school everyday. I am also responsible for insuring that my son is prepared for school each day. Evenings are spent making sure he has completed HW and quizzing him for tests etc. Again, I have no doubt that the father would be hauling me into court were my son's grades less than acceptable. My son happens to be a Straight A student. Again, I believe IT IS directed how I spend my time--simply because I am a parent. And I mkae the investment with my son--not only because the father would haul me into court if I didn't but because that is my duty as a parent.

A school day and a weekend visitation day are 2 completely different topics. How can you even compare the two? The OP is NOT talking about taking the child out of school- he's talking about exercising his court ordered right of visitation.

Sounds like you have control issues- and you are LUCKY your X plays your game.

 

[ETG]

You are right--I only have one. Decisions involving funerals etc (THANK GOD) are not the norm. Decisions of choosing between a grandparents birthday and a Cub Scout Camp out are also not the norm--but inevitably do come up. I have raised my son with good values and a sense of establishing good decisions from alternatives--and likely if I said "It's Gramma's 80th Birthday--it's important to us and to her that we celebrate this occasion"--I believe my son would make the RIGHT choice.

My only comment to this Dad--was that he discuss it with his daughter versus turning it into a legal battle of making the mother the enforcer while he simply gets to go to court and claim to be a victim. He is not a victim--he is a parent--and making the Mom an enforcer of his daughter's wishes is not in his best interest of establishing an open and respectful communication with his daughter. The court cannot "ORDER" her to have a relationship with him once he can no longer place it ALL on the mother via threats to bring legal action. It did not sound to me that this Dad was planning to attend a funeral or an event that if discussed with the daughter--would have given her moral and ethical decisions to ponder. I recall the Dad simply said that the horse event was a 2 hour drive from his home--and not necessarily convenient. There is nothing about being a parent that is convenient--and given the number of things you are juggling with your children--I'm sure you understand this.

 

[ETG]

AnswerMeNow must be in the legal field. Mr. Kees--he is not providing you legal advice--he is providing input on how to be contentious.

I agree with haiku---the mother should simply pack her 14 year old daughter up, send her on her way and tell her to take the decision to attend/not attend the horse event or any other event that conflicts with the visitation up with the Dad.

With my son, I advise the father of activities that take place on visitation weekend, advise the Dad on whether or not it is something my son wants to do or not do and then tell him to discuss it with our son. If he intends to do something different--the final decision if left with him and him communicaitng this to our son. Not MY trying to assert my opinions, desires or anything else on the Dad. If he wants to go to a "Paperclip Show" versus taking our son to a horse show--that is his decision and one that he will have to communicate to our son and live with the consequence. The father is quite capable of establishing rules, boundries and deciding how HE wants to interact in his children's life. The result is also his.