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Negotiation in Bad Faith?
- Thread starter lokeen
- Start date
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tigger22472
Senior Member
WANNACRY said:
Gotta pick your battles... Dad isn't getting that weekend night but he's getting other time, a attested by the poster. The issue is do you want to risk her then seeking a mod in support and risking not having the kids as often?
Of course there's also the whole concept that the 'magical contempt fairy' must of broke her wings. Someone has to file contempt. And in reality IMO it should have been address or at least tried right away. I understand the mileage thing but ya know. Now it's a matter of waiting til she buries herself to the point that a custody change is warranted and hands down
tigger22472 said:
Dad also isn't getting Sunday overnights anymore either....
I understand that concept of the parenting time credit (now) and very much appreciate the info. I guess I just don't understand why there is no retribution for her negotiating the time in the first place when she knew she was going to move.
LdiJ
Senior Member
lokeen said:
There would be if you chose to fight that battle...she might be held in contempt and fined, even if her move was legally ok. However, the end result would still be that visitation would end up getting changed, and therefore the risk of losing parenting time credits in the CS calculation.
lokeen said:
I agree the situation sucks.
I don't see it being fair at all (& I'm a CP). The only thing to do if you don't want to risk taking it to court~ is try negotiating for things the Mom wants. ie; Dad will care for the child during X times that Mom needs- if Mom agrees to X for Dad. (That only works when both parents can cooperate) 
tigger22472
Senior Member
And let's not forget, pissing mom off to where that new visitation schedule is followed to a T.
When I met my husband we lived in another town about 30 minutes from where we live now. His ex wife lived where we do now. They have a 50/50 situation (2 weeks at each home). Before his daughter started school, he and I discussed about moving and agreed to do so in order to not have a court battle. He was intending to tell his ex wife and of course an argument ensued and he decided he was fighting her in court and we were NOT moving. I asked him if he thought it was worth the risk of going from 2 solid weeks (which ended up being more as we became mom's babysitter) to EOW and one night a week. At first he said yes. I asked him what he'd do if he lost. His answer was that we'd move then. I let him know that if I were in his ex's shoes and he took me to court to fight over something and spend tons of money and then lost and thought things would go right back to how they were he could eat my dust cuz he would be JUST what that court order said.
The point is the CP does not have to allow anything outside the court order. I realize that your husband isn't getting everything specifically as the order is written but he's getting other time and it sounds as if it's more 'time' then the order states. You really have to weigh everything before you take it to court and even then it's iffy, especially here in Indiana with these judges.
When I met my husband we lived in another town about 30 minutes from where we live now. His ex wife lived where we do now. They have a 50/50 situation (2 weeks at each home). Before his daughter started school, he and I discussed about moving and agreed to do so in order to not have a court battle. He was intending to tell his ex wife and of course an argument ensued and he decided he was fighting her in court and we were NOT moving. I asked him if he thought it was worth the risk of going from 2 solid weeks (which ended up being more as we became mom's babysitter) to EOW and one night a week. At first he said yes. I asked him what he'd do if he lost. His answer was that we'd move then. I let him know that if I were in his ex's shoes and he took me to court to fight over something and spend tons of money and then lost and thought things would go right back to how they were he could eat my dust cuz he would be JUST what that court order said.
The point is the CP does not have to allow anything outside the court order. I realize that your husband isn't getting everything specifically as the order is written but he's getting other time and it sounds as if it's more 'time' then the order states. You really have to weigh everything before you take it to court and even then it's iffy, especially here in Indiana with these judges.
...but I see how it they use it.tigger22472 said:
Ok, I don't mean to ask too many questions here, but at what point do we know that its time to go back to court? What's the 'trigger'. I have a 5" binder full of documentation of correspondence, late arrivals, expenses, additional parenting time, etc. Am I missing anything?
My step-son will start school in the fall of 2006 at which point she won't have the option of just sending them to us 'whenever' because that would mean pulling him out of school. So eventually we will loose the extra time we are getting now.
I guess more than anything I just want to be completely prepared for our day in court when it comes...
tigger22472
Senior Member
lokeen said:
ewww.. kid starting school is a challenge.
In my honest opinion, if I were dad I would keep my mouth shut for now. Keep that documentation in order for now. Now, this is kind of a sneaky way of doing this, BUT.. I'll ask anyways. Do you know anything about when she files her tax return and how 'quickly' she goes through the money? Is there any provisions in the decree giving dad the right to file for anything?
The reason I ask is because it's not always wise to file an order when mom might have the better means to fight it... I told you it was sneaky
I would in order to get it into court before school and at the very least get temp orders it's going to have to be filed at the beginning of the year... HOWEVER, what county is the order in? That could make a difference because in my county, I could be in within a month...Let me put it this way...she inherited $400,000 from her father and went through it in less than 1 year. She's a spender...that's for sure. Not sure what you mean by 'right to file for anything'...do you mean file for taxes or more visitation time or what?tigger22472 said:
The order will have to be filed in Allen County. This means we wouldn't get in to see a judge for quite awhile.tigger22472 said:
LdiJ
Senior Member
lokeen said:
She meant does the order give dad the right to the tax exemption for the child part or all of the time.....She was thinking about the fact that if its mom's year to get the exemption that mom may have a chunk of cash available to pay an attorney around tax time. Therefore it might not be the best time to file any motions in court.
tigger22472
Senior Member
lokeen said:
What I meant was, is there anything in the divorce decree giving dad the right to claim the children on taxes? I missed it but is she remarried? My point is, is she low income to get the EIC credit in taxes?
K.. so yeah, Allen County would be tough to get in. I would expect 3 months or so absent an emergency... maybe less for a preliminary. Now, I just want to be certain that's the county the current order is in and not the county mom lives in now.
And as LDIJ pointed out, that's exactly why I was asking
However, seeing as it's Allen County you may not have a choice. Again it's going to come down to a matter of timing.So, currently you have the distance incurred (which technically has put her in contempt), you have many different child care people (do you know WHY there were changes so often?), and you have that the kids are in your home quite often and the fact that dad (if even through you as proxy) is showing that he's reliable and stepping up to the plate. Is there anything else?
He gets to claim one of the two boys as long as he is current on his support and she gets to claim one of the boys until the oldest can't be claimed, then they switch off. She is remarried (as of June 2005) and she makes too much money to qualify for the EIC credit.tigger22472 said:
Everything was filed and signed in Allen County. She moved to Hamilton, but it would still be handled in Allen County, right?tigger22472 said:
tigger22472 said:And as LDIJ pointed out, that's exactly why I was asking
So, currently you have the distance incurred (which technically has put her in contempt), you have many different child care people (do you know WHY there were changes so often?), and you have that the kids are in your home quite often and the fact that dad (if even through you as proxy) is showing that he's reliable and stepping up to the plate. Is there anything else?
The first daycare she contracted was terminated because it was too expensive for her. This information comes via email from her (hence my thread today asking if emails were admissible). The second provider she contracted was pregnant when the boys started there. They were in her care for 11 weeks before she gave birth and this 2nd provider decided that she didn't want to 'babysit' anymore (again info comes via email), so a third was contracted. We have had the boys for the past several weeks while this third provider was found. They are scheduled to return this Sunday to start this 3rd new daycare Monday morning. (By the way this is the 3rd daycare since 01/02/05, the date she moved to Hamilton County).
We have lost overnight parenting time because of her move.
We have a police report that she filed accusing her new husband of physical abuse. She later dropped the charges claiming that he really didn't hurt her, she was just 'off her meds'. (I have a copy of the recorded voicemail she left for the detective assigned to the case. He sent me the recording along with the police report.)
We have proof that she hasn't covered the boys on medical insurance as she was court ordered to do.
And then there are little petty things that I'm not sure matters:
She routinely calls my husband at work even though it is written in their agreement that she is 'not to contact his place of employment'.
On three occasions she has sent us the boys with an illness that requires perscription medication and doctor visits. All of which we have paid for, but have not been reimbursed. (Per their Agreement she is responsible for the first $633 in medical expenses yearly.)
Per the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines, she is to send an adequate supply of clothing and any perscription and/or over-the-counter medication with the boys for their time with us and she never has. So, I just keep a log of our expenses for clothing, medication, car seats, etc. along with receipts.
She is consistently late in arriving to the agreed 1/2 way point for pick up and drop offs. I don't mean a couple of minutes late, I mean an average of 42 mins late in coming to pick them up and 27 mins. late dropping them off.
Um, (and I really don't want to open up a can of worms here...) she has both boys call her new husband 'daddy' and my husband 'daddy <firstname>'. I know that is a touchy subject and has been addressed several times on this forum, but my husband and I feel that because he is an ongoing and active participant in their lives, that this only adds to the confusion of what their extended family means. Further, there is the following verbage in their agreement which leads me to believe that she is in contempt:
"Neither Husband nor Wife shall attempt, or condone any attempt, directly or indirectly, by any artifice or subeterfuge whatsoever, to estrange the children from the other party or to injure or impair the mutual love and affection of the children and the other party"
Again we feel that by calling their dad 'daddy <firstname>', it cheapens the time that he spends with them.
Then there are the typical problems that come with having Joint Physical Custody with regards to choosing doctors, schools, and the like. We were under the impression from our research that Joint Physical Custody was given only to parents that live in close proximity to one another, with her move his hands are tied. We don't know what goes on down there and what the options even are...
Bleh...I could go on and on with all of the petty things. I document them, but I'm not sure what, if any, credence they hold. Basically we are just waiting for a 'bomb' to drop and holding our breath in the meantime.
She does have a history of drinking and rehab, but this was all presented to the judge at the preliminary hearing before the divorce was final and it didn't seem to make much of a difference, as she was still awarded physical custody during the prelim...
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