Terminating overnight visitation

[gam]

Thank you very much for explaining the ref process. I was totally off thinking it was a mediation type scenario. I did know that we would both have the opportunity to object to the referee's recommendation. Knowing this information, I wish I'd have the funds to retain a lawyer. :/ (My husband and I are currently in the process of buying a home) Would it be beneficial to see if my former attorney from my divorce proceedings would do a few phone consultations at her hourly rate to offer advice for the hearing? I know my ex won't have one. Also, if I chose to do this, would it change my stats from pro per/se?

How does the hearing go? Do we each get a chance to speak and then respond to each other's statements? Or does the referee just ask questions? Do we get asked what we want the outcome to be? My motion requested termination of overnight visitation, and didn't mentioned a phased in plan, is that something I should mention?

Lastly, if I offered to abate child support to facilitate a phased in plan with him having to travel to Maryland, could that even be done? And if so, could it be conditional that he follow the phased in plan? He's in arrears, and isn't ordered to pay much as it is. I don't rely on child support at all.

Thanks again in advance!

Always wise to at least consult with a lawyer that is familiar with your circuit court and your Judge. Courts very in Mi, and I have only first hand knowledge of 6 different circuit courts, all within the same area of Mi. From reading and being on boards like this one for over 9 years, it seems that most Mi courts run pretty close to each other, but without knowing your exact court, best you can do is get a few extra consults. If things don't go well with a Ref, you also have the option to bring a lawyer when you object.

The hearing goes the way that Ref wants, lol. I have seen them take lots of time and I have seen them not bother at all, they already have their mind set to what the recommendation will be. If done the correct way, the Ref will start with whoever filed, asked questions, give that side a chance to explain. They then will give the other side the same. They will then tell you what they think is best, see what you each think on that. If they want to spend time on this, this is where they will do some mediation, if they don't, they will make it clear. This is their recommendation, it's going to the Judge even if neither of you agree. A local lawyer can tell you what they have seen that Ref do, another good reason for that consult.

Yes you want to better explain that your not looking to terminate dads time, your looking to get a phase in going, as there has been little contact and for dad to maintain a more stable parenting plan for the child.

The CS formula figures in overnights as it is. It's possible to get several CS orders at one time through this, my daughters case, they had one for the phase in and then a new one starts when the phase in is over. It's possible to get anything if both parties are in agreement, but then a Ref can say no way to that to. I surely would offer something if you can go without the CS, anything to make this happen for the child.

Transportation costs and who pays for them needs to be done through this. You actually moved, so you could be assigned all of the costs, plan on having to pay half of the transportation. I have seen though them put in things like if the other party is not current with CS then they must pay all costs of transportation. I've also seen them reflect lower CS amount based on the payer of CS having transportation costs.

I will tell you in my daughters case, dad moved, dad pays all transportation, dad does not get a reflection in the CS amount based on him paying all transportation. But facts are a bit different, dad was nowhere for over 2 1/2 years, dad didn't pay CS, my daughter was unable to locate him to file for CS. She was able to prove that to the court. Everything matters on facts of the case and how the court sees them. So anything within the laws are possible.

 

[milmom]

Always wise to at least consult with a lawyer that is familiar with your circuit court and your Judge. Courts very in Mi, and I have only first hand knowledge of 6 different circuit courts, all within the same area of Mi. From reading and being on boards like this one for over 9 years, it seems that most Mi courts run pretty close to each other, but without knowing your exact court, best you can do is get a few extra consults. If things don't go well with a Ref, you also have the option to bring a lawyer when you object.

The hearing goes the way that Ref wants, lol. I have seen them take lots of time and I have seen them not bother at all, they already have their mind set to what the recommendation will be. If done the correct way, the Ref will start with whoever filed, asked questions, give that side a chance to explain. They then will give the other side the same. They will then tell you what they think is best, see what you each think on that. If they want to spend time on this, this is where they will do some mediation, if they don't, they will make it clear. This is their recommendation, it's going to the Judge even if neither of you agree. A local lawyer can tell you what they have seen that Ref do, another good reason for that consult.

Yes you want to better explain that your not looking to terminate dads time, your looking to get a phase in going, as there has been little contact and for dad to maintain a more stable parenting plan for the child.

The CS formula figures in overnights as it is. It's possible to get several CS orders at one time through this, my daughters case, they had one for the phase in and then a new one starts when the phase in is over. It's possible to get anything if both parties are in agreement, but then a Ref can say no way to that to. I surely would offer something if you can go without the CS, anything to make this happen for the child.

Transportation costs and who pays for them needs to be done through this. You actually moved, so you could be assigned all of the costs, plan on having to pay half of the transportation. I have seen though them put in things like if the other party is not current with CS then they must pay all costs of transportation. I've also seen them reflect lower CS amount based on the payer of CS having transportation costs.

I will tell you in my daughters case, dad moved, dad pays all transportation, dad does not get a reflection in the CS amount based on him paying all transportation. But facts are a bit different, dad was nowhere for over 2 1/2 years, dad didn't pay CS, my daughter was unable to locate him to file for CS. She was able to prove that to the court. Everything matters on facts of the case and how the court sees them. So anything within the laws are possible.

gam, thank you so much. Your help has been invaluable. I just wanted to say that up front before I respond to each of the comments individually. I'm definitely going to call my former attorney, and if we end up before a judge there's no doubt I'll bring her with me. Thanks again!

 

[milmom]

This only means she cannot provide a stable home life for the child. This is the very reason the armed forces started requiring parents to give up custody, when joining the service as a solo parent. They have been screwing the men of the armed forces for decades over the very same issue. Woman have simply started to achieve equal rights in the past several years.

I had an extremely long response written to you that the internet ate... off to the bit bucket. The cliff notes version is below:

1. My ex husband moved out of Maryland and left our 18 month old daughter with me a year prior to our divorce. I had offered him 50/50 custody in Maryland, where at the time he was working for a gov't contractor. He quit his job and moved away. That would have been his golden opportunity to get custody away from the crap-tastic military mom. Oops.
*The second golden opportunity for a custody change would have been the 6 months our daughter lived with my mother in Michigan because my ex husband refused to take her.*
2. I am in a career field that cannot deploy. The only overseas assignment I'm eligible for is Hawaii.
3. My ex husband has moved houses, as well states more often than I have moved our daughter in the 5 years he's been gone.
4. He is ordered to pay $267/month this is with no residential credit, our last support review was calculated based on him having her 0 overnights.
5. He went 10 months in 2012 without calling to talk to our daughter a single time.
6. I paid for transportation for all but one visit in the 5 years. I've even paid him to take her. Our agreement states transportation should be split 50/50.
7. He's never been fired or laid off from a job, but has remained unemployed more than he's remained employed since he separated from the military in 2005. He was working for 8 months in 2011/2012 at GM making very good money for the area (not the wages child support was based on) and quit the job and moved out of state and fell off the radar for 10 months. Not sure what he's been doing since, except that he is working in Michigan. He can't be making more than minimum wage, because that was imputed when we divorced and support then was $208, and that was with a residential credit.
8. Our divorce agreement, any parenting agreement up to this point has been agreed on by both of us, not decided by a judge. So unless my ex husband has some thing for women's rights... your statement is invalid.

My daughter is about to finish the first grade with the highest marks possible at the age of 6. She reads at a third grade level. I am the only person on this planet that has ever provided her with a roof over her head, clothes on her back, and food in her mouth without hesitation. She has had health insurance since the day she was born, provided by me. She is amazing. Being active duty isn't ideal for parenting, but I've done an excellent job thus far minimizing the damage, and there isn't any. If it weren't for me she wouldn't have a stable home life anywhere. Even if our stable home moves from time to time.

I've remained very civil over the last 5 years for the sake of our daughter. It's not her fault we couldn't make our marriage work, and it isn't her fault he's a crappy person. I have literally paid him to take her. I have begged, pleaded and cried for him to maintain a relationship with her. I have been a single mother serving my country and sacrificed an awful lot to ensure it doesn't affect my little girl. Blood sweat and tears I've put into being a mother, and will for the rest of my life. I'm deeply offended by your remark that my parenting is craptastic when you know nothing more than I'm in the military.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

So he is a poor craptastic parent. You are a rich craptastic parent. I had already suspected he was poor and you attempting to take advantage of that fact. What you should be doing is diverting some of your income and offer to pay for tickets for your daughter to visit her dad. It amazes me how many custodial parents will spend a ton of money attempting to disenfranchise the other parent.

 

[mommyanme]

So he is a poor craptastic parent. You are a rich craptastic parent. I had already suspected he was poor and you attempting to take advantage of that fact. What you should be doing is diverting some of your income and offer to pay for tickets for your daughter to visit her dad. It amazes me how many custodial parents will spend a ton of money attempting to disenfranchise the other parent.

Again did you read or skim? She said "6. I paid for transportation for all but one visit in the 5 years. I've even paid him to take her. Our agreement states transportation should be split 50/50."

You lay into some bad sauce OW or have a rotten week....something?? Cause she states more than once she paid for transportation and provided the transportation to her family who is only an hour from him but he CHOSE NOT to take advantage of it. She OFFERED THEIR daughter to LIVE with HIM, he CHOSE to NOT have HIS daughter! Are you honestly attacking her? She's DONE what you're attacking her for.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Not exactly, she hasn't. She sent the kids to visit relatives nearby. What she is attempting to do now is remove visitation rights. I think you need to re-read what she says and how she says it. She is obviously attempting to micro-manage his visitation and he has decided not to play her games.

 

[milmom]

So he is a poor craptastic parent. You are a rich craptastic parent. I had already suspected he was poor and you attempting to take advantage of that fact. What you should be doing is diverting some of your income and offer to pay for tickets for your daughter to visit her dad. It amazes me how many custodial parents will spend a ton of money attempting to disenfranchise the other parent.

Not exactly, she hasn't. She sent the kids to visit relatives nearby. What she is attempting to do now is remove visitation rights. I think you need to re-read what she says and how she says it.

Yes, I did send our child to relatives nearby because when I offered to send her to her father he refused. I think you need to stop reading what you want to read and ignoring everything else. He didn't refuse to take her because the travel expenses were too much. He didn't refuse to take her because he was poor, I offered to pay child support to him and/or pay for child care during that time if he had taken her. To the tune of $1000 a month. I don't know why he refused to take her, but it wasn't because he was poor.

As far as offering to pay for tickets for her to visit, I've done this as well, numerous times. I've paid for travel for all but one visit. 100% of the travel. I've given him money to care for her during visits. I sent diapers/pull-ups, I even sent eating utensils. My mother offered him the furniture that she had in her home for our daughter to visit, so he wouldn't have the expense of having to purchase those on his own.

You've also failed to read where I have said, multiple times that he has spent 3 hours with our daughter in the last 2 years. He was at the time living in Michigan and asked to have a week of Christmas time. I offered to pay for plane tickets. He chose to take his week of vacation and drive to Louisiana with a friend. He drove from Louisiana to my home in Texas with the intention of taking our daughter for the day. He showed up 2 hours late, and said he couldn't take her anywhere because his car was full of stuff.

If the problem was the he was poor and couldn't afford visits, or afford to follow us around the country while I'm being a rich craptastic parent then why hasn't he called? Why hasn't he taken me up on my offer for Skype conversations? Prior to my filing he spoke to her once since February of 2011. When he spoke to her in February of 2012 he told her he would be moving close to us and see her as often as possible. The next time she heard from him was in December of 2012. 10 months. No phone call, no letter, no card. Not an email, a text message. I spent the first 3 years we were apart trying to encourage him to be a father, and I was a failure in my efforts. I handed her to him on a silver platter with a handful of cash for visits. He chose to be poor, he chose to move away and give up custody of his daughter, and he's chosen for 5 years to not make her a priority. My job as a mother is to take care of my child, not force the other parent to live up to his responsibilities.

I fail to see why you are so hell bent on trying to paint me as a vengeful person trying to eliminate my daughter's father from her life. What you seem to not understand is even if I were a rich craptastic parent on a mission to spend a ton of money to disenfranchise the other parent, I wouldn't have to HE'S DONE IT TO HIMSELF!

 

[milmom]

Again did you read or skim? She said "6. I paid for transportation for all but one visit in the 5 years. I've even paid him to take her. Our agreement states transportation should be split 50/50."

You lay into some bad sauce OW or have a rotten week....something?? Cause she states more than once she paid for transportation and provided the transportation to her family who is only an hour from him but he CHOSE NOT to take advantage of it. She OFFERED THEIR daughter to LIVE with HIM, he CHOSE to NOT have HIS daughter! Are you honestly attacking her? She's DONE what you're attacking her for.

Thanks for the backup.

 

[milmom]

Not exactly, she hasn't. She sent the kids to visit relatives nearby. What she is attempting to do now is remove visitation rights. I think you need to re-read what she says and how she says it. She is obviously attempting to micro-manage his visitation and he has decided not to play her games.

You edited your post, so I'm replying to the edit. My attempt is to remove his visitation rights except in the event he chooses to reestablish a relationship with our daughter.

Where do you get that I'm attempting to micro manage his visitation? Am I now? Hell yes, because he isn't a part of her life. Have I up until this point? No.

So what again is the reason my ex husband hasn't been a part of his daughters life for at least the last 2 years?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Having spent way too many years in the Michigan courts with both referees and judges, if you go in an propose a reasonable solution to dad's behavior, the courts tend to listen. I'll offer a different solution. Many may disagree here. What about changing the wording to "reasonable parenting time as mutually agreed upon." And yes, it can work. I had that with my first husband - he worked swing shift and his days off always changed so we worked it out between ourselves.

In your case, you set up parenting time based on what is reasonable for the circumstances.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Now gee, who do you think keeps reporting my posts, to delete them. I guess that means I struck the truth and she knows it.

For the record, I suggested she was likely mad, because she planned a vacation and dad would not take their daughter while she was gone. Now she wants him to pay. I also noted that if she was not being vindictive, she would just do nothing.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Listen Ohio, you have been badgering this woman with apparent disregard to what has been posted by her. And for the record, I wasn't quick enough in reporting your posts - others beat me to it.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I'm not badgering her. I am calling her out for her action. As I said, unless she is actively being vindictive, the solution is to do nothing. Attempting to destroy the chance of her daughter and dad having a future relationship aggressively, is craptastic parenting. It does not matter whether she is the mother or the father. She is misrepresenting the fact that she sends the child to her relatives as sending the child to dads. When she goes to court, hopefully the judge sees this also.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Now gee, who do you think keeps reporting my posts, to delete them. I guess that means I struck the truth and she knows it.

For the record, I suggested she was likely mad, because she planned a vacation and dad would not take their daughter while she was gone. Now she wants him to pay. I also noted that if she was not being vindictive, she would just do nothing.

Post #1 -

I had training out of state that I could not have dependents accompany. My ex husband would not agree to our daughter staying with my husband in Maryland, but refused to take her for that time.

She had to go for W.O.R.K. She's providing for their child.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Post #1 -

She had to go for W.O.R.K. She's providing for their child.

As far as offering to pay for tickets for her to visit, I've done this as well, numerous times. I've paid for travel for all but one visit. 100% of the travel. I've given him money to care for her during visits. I sent diapers/pull-ups, I even sent eating utensils. My mother offered him the furniture that she had in her home for our daughter to visit, so he wouldn't have the expense of having to purchase those on his own.

As I said, she is misrepresenting the facts to make herself appear to be doing more than she is. She elected to take the job she has. It is not his job to provide backup childcare. She is being a craptastic parent, because now she wants to attempt to aggressively punish him for not doing things her way. That is not in the childs best interest. That is in her own selfish interest. The logical thing would be to do nothing.

Apparently this has occurred more than once, so I doubt every time it happened, she was only going for work.