Terminating overnight visitation

[ecmst12]

I think OP and everyone else should stop engaging with OHTroll and ignore him until he goes away.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I think OP and everyone else should stop engaging with OHTroll and ignore him until he goes away.

Amazing how if it were a male poster, the same points would be raised. I think OP has let her stripes go to her head, in her personal life.

 

[gam]

OP bottom line, you have an existing court order that you must follow as the custodial parent. The other party to this court order does not have to take their parenting time and the court can't force them to. But that leaves you left with a 6 year old child that has had very little contact with that other parent. You still have that court order to follow, dad makes little contact for 2 years, and can now just say hey "I want my 6 weeks of summer time", and you have to follow that order and send the child. That may or may not be the best thing for the child, and no one here can tell you what you should do, we don't have first hand knowledge of the situation, you do. You have a right to file and modify that current order if you choose, to get an order that better suits the current situation.

Read Tinkerbelle's post, she has a really good suggestion that could work in your case. She also happens to have spent lots of time herself in Michigan courts, so she also knows how they go. You can run a search on Tinkerbelle and read some of her great advice that she gives, she always has some interesting suggestions to try and she has lots of tips on Mi courts.

There are always other options, nothing has to be some set standard and if you go into court with a few ideas of how you could work this, all the better. Don't worry about someone reading something different in your post, that can be a good thing. It helps you to relook, see where you can make things better yourself, and perhaps see how the other side might be seeing things. The point of posting to a board full of strangers, is to get lots of ideas and lots of different views.

 

[LdiJ]

As I said, she is misrepresenting the facts to make herself appear to be doing more than she is. She elected to take the job she has. It is not his job to provide backup childcare. She is being a craptastic parent, because now she wants to attempt to aggressively punish him for not doing things her way. That is not in the childs best interest. That is in her own selfish interest. The logical thing would be to do nothing.

Apparently this has occurred more than once, so I doubt every time it happened, she was only going for work.

This is utter BS....completely

OP, I suggest that you completely ignore OHRoadwarrior from now on. He isn't interested in the best interest of your child at all, he is interested solely in the best interest of your ex. He obviously believes that a parent can make themselves a virtual stranger to a child and then should be able to pick up right where they left off with no reintroduction. Its also very much his habit to ignore anything in a post that doesn't match his point of view, and react only to what he believes does back up his point of view.

People here are always asking him if he is just "skimming" a post, because its so noticeable.

 

[stealth2]

This is utter BS....completely

OP, I suggest that you completely ignore OHRoadwarrior from now on. He isn't interested in the best interest of your child at all, he is interested solely in the best interest of your ex. He obviously believes that a parent can make themselves a virtual stranger to a child and then should be able to pick up right where they left off with no reintroduction. Its also very much his habit to ignore anything in a post that doesn't match his point of view, and react only to what he believes does back up his point of view.

People here are always asking him if he is just "skimming" a post, because its so noticeable.

No, he's not even interested in that, LDi.. All roadkill is interested in is spouting nonsense and getting attention. As usual.

Another fact that he "missed" in his skimming is that OP is NOT a single parent.

OP - ignore him. You got excellent advice/input from several posters w/o needing to engage the troll.

 

[milmom]

Thanks

Thanks again to those of you consistently providing advice. I greatly appreciate it. It was my mistake for engaging the crazy, I should had identified from the start it would go no where. Lesson learned. But like one of you said it at least put me on the spot to look at my choices and facts and see if what I am doing is in fact in our daughter's best interest or my own.

I didn't report any posts, btw. If someone wants to make themselves look biased on the Internet that's on them.

I do have a couple more questions if someone doesn't mind. In the referee hearing are bystanders allowed? I'm appearing by phone so obviously I don't intend to bring anyone. It's not something I'm overly concerned with just a curiosity.

In the service it stated that my ex husband was to provide a response to my motion using friend of the court form x no later than 7 days prior to the hearing. If he does provide a response will I get a copy prior to the hearing to review? If there is no response filed will we still have a hearing?

Lastly, what happens if he doesn't appear? I don't expect him not to, but its always a possibility.

Again, thank you all for your help, I'm taking notes on all the suggestions you've provided, as well as going to look through tinker's posts as recommended.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Yes, bystanders can sit in the court. I wish I had done that the last time I had "appeared" telephonically since it cut in and out. Have them take copious notes for you.

HE is expected to provide you with copies of what is filed if he follows directions. My X never has and I've had to pay to get copies of what he filed in court.

In my case, I had an attorney in court so that at least helped my situation. Do you have an attorney there?

 

[gam]

Thanks again to those of you consistently providing advice. I greatly appreciate it. It was my mistake for engaging the crazy, I should had identified from the start it would go no where. Lesson learned. But like one of you said it at least put me on the spot to look at my choices and facts and see if what I am doing is in fact in our daughter's best interest or my own.

I didn't report any posts, btw. If someone wants to make themselves look biased on the Internet that's on them.

I do have a couple more questions if someone doesn't mind. In the referee hearing are bystanders allowed? I'm appearing by phone so obviously I don't intend to bring anyone. It's not something I'm overly concerned with just a curiosity.

In the service it stated that my ex husband was to provide a response to my motion using friend of the court form x no later than 7 days prior to the hearing. If he does provide a response will I get a copy prior to the hearing to review? If there is no response filed will we still have a hearing?

Lastly, what happens if he doesn't appear? I don't expect him not to, but its always a possibility.

Again, thank you all for your help, I'm taking notes on all the suggestions you've provided, as well as going to look through tinker's posts as recommended.

Much depends on the court, in many bystanders can go in, in some you can't go in if it is for child support, some you can't go in at all. The court I have been in the most, now has a Ref that won't let you in, no matter what, often won't even let the parties in if they have lawyers, just their lawyers are allowed in. This though is something new that I have not seen before. If a bystander is let in, they have no part in the hearing, and if they do try to participate, you want to ask the Ref why. That has happened in my Niece's case, she was doing a phone in, her ex brought his new girlfriend and she was running the hearing, until my Niece spoke up and asked why she was participating.

If your ex filed a response then in signing that filing, he has to follow the courts procedure in sending the response to the other party. Now some courts in Mi have different procedures to this, but most it's left to the filing party to mail you a response, and they sign the filing that they did. You can check how that is done through the circuit court clerk of your court, some of the courts do things different. The ones I am familiar with, it's always been done by the filing party and through regular mail. I know some use process servers and some require certified mail. If you don't get a response, and during the hearing you find he did file one, let the Ref know, so they can tell you what that response is and so you can let then know that he didn't send you it. You have a right to any filings on your case.

The hearing takes place regardless if he files a response or not. It will also take place regardless if he shows up or not, the Ref has many options to do if he is a no show. I've seen them try to phone contact the other party right then, I've seen them adjourn the hearing and attempt to have the other party notified again and another hearing is scheduled. I've also seen them go ahead and proceed without the other party, as the other party can still object to whatever goes on. If they do not object in the time frame, the recommendation will be entered as a default judgement, Judge will sign it. If you have a time for this phone in, and your ex does not show, plan on the Ref giving it up to an hour of wait. Usually they will either tell you to call back in that time, or they will tell you they will call you if he shows before that hour. There might be even more things they can do, these are just all the ones I have seen.

Tinkerbelle might come along again and offer a bit more, I know she has done phone ins herself. My Niece has done a lot of phone ins, but her court is for a small county and they do lots of things different then the other courts I am familiar with.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Have you tried to call the court clerk and ask if someone can go in?

What county are you in? Gam's experience is on the east side - mine is down in Berrien.

 

[milmom]

Yes, bystanders can sit in the court. I wish I had done that the last time I had "appeared" telephonically since it cut in and out. Have them take copious notes for you.

HE is expected to provide you with copies of what is filed if he follows directions. My X never has and I've had to pay to get copies of what he filed in court.

In my case, I had an attorney in court so that at least helped my situation. Do you have an attorney there?

I don't have an attorney on retainer in the area currently. I do have one in the next county over (Saginaw County) that practices in our county (Bay County) and represented me/did the paperwork and filing for our original divorce. I was going to call her office and see if I could pay hourly for a few consultations for prep for the hearing. My husband and I are in the process of buying a home and don't currently have the funds to retain a lawyer. I was hoping to save that money in case we have to go before a judge. If she requires a retainer for the phone consultations, I will probably just pay for her to appear for the ref hearing as well. Since I filed the motion pro se, would I have to notify my ex and the court that I've retained counsel? It's not impossible for us to afford the retainer/billable hours. I'm aware that a person that represents themselves has a fool for counsel... or whatnot, but I know my ex can't afford a lawyer, and I didn't want to seem as though I was strong arming him in any way. I had this same concern during our divorce, but it was un-contested and I really just paid the lawyer to do all the leg work and filing that was difficult for me being out of state.

Have you tried to call the court clerk and ask if someone can go in?

What county are you in? Gam's experience is on the east side - mine is down in Berrien.

I haven't called the clerk, but will on Monday. I hadn't thought about having someone sit in prior to this thread evolving. I had misunderstood the process of the ref hearing and thought it would be more mediation-like and didn't think it would be appropriate to have someone sitting in there other than myself, my ex or our lawyers if we decided to retain counsel. I'm beginning to think if it's allowed asking my mother to drive down for the hearing so she can take notes, like you said. I would have appeared myself, but will be just arriving in Maryland that week and checking in to my new base and won't be able to take the time off to drive to Michigan.

We are in Bay County. The lawyer that worked with me on my divorce case is in Saginaw County.

 

[milmom]

Another quick one...

Do I call the referee "Your honor" or "sir"?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Ask the clerk that question when you find out if someone can sit in the back of the hearing. I've only gone in front of the judge directly the last 5 court hearings.

Make sure that your mom doesn't making any noise in the back. Just take notes for you. Also, find out the rules if you can take electronics into the building. In Berrien, we are not allowed ANY electronics in the building - all cell phones, etc stay in the car.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

If you do get representation in the hearing, your attorney will file a motion that they are representing you and that gets filed to all parties.

 

[gam]

I've only been in Bay County court once and that was 9 years ago and it was a Judge. The courts I know well, Macomb, Oakland, Wayne, St Clair, Genesse and Saginaw all run similiar. From reading and talking to people for over 9 years on boards, Bay County runs about the same as the ones I listed, as well as Midland. This side of the state is pretty close in the courts as far as decisions, they all use close standard parenting plans. Bay County has little online, however some of these others I listed have long distance plans and information such as FOC handbooks, procedures to the court. I know Genesse and St Clair have long distance plans online, Saginaw and Midland might. Genesse's regular parenting plan, has ideas based on ages and has ideas if one has had a constant relationship or little time relationship with the child. St Clair also has real good parenting plans online, you can look at both standard and long distance in that county. If you have trouble finding any of these let me know and I can get you links.

Bay County court is small, runs more like Midland, Saginaw, Genesse and St Clair. These smaller courts have FOC and Refs doing more, less burden on the few Judges they have. You stand a higher chance of the Ref taking more time and doing a bit of mediation. The Judges I have seen in these smaller courts also seem to take more time to hear the case then the bigger courts.

All the courts I have listed, love when a party comes in with ideas of parenting plans.
Make yourself an ideal parenting plan for the situation, then write down things that your willing to compromise on in that ideal plan. Add your ideas of ways your willing to work with dad that will make this less costly, and easier for him. Stress your goal is that he and child get a strong relationship. Offer times for skype sessions, even though dad has not wanted to do these, these courts above love skype for long distance and they put it in orders left and right, even when one party does not want to do them.

I don't know if you have to notify the court that you have retained counsel, that's a question you can ask the county circuit court clerk's office or the lawyer themselves would know that. I would for sure see if you can get a few phone consults with that lawyer, worth for their hourly rates. Just to get procedures for the court and get some info on the Ref and I would also get some info on the Judge to. They can tell you how they run their hearings and what they tend to do in certain situations. If you don't take a lawyer, remember you can always object to the Ref recommendation and hire a lawyer for the next hearing. That lawyer can get the transcripts of the Ref hearing prior to the Judges hearing.

The lawyers all refer to the Ref, as "Referee last name".

 

[milmom]

I've only been in Bay County court once and that was 9 years ago and it was a Judge. The courts I know well, Macomb, Oakland, Wayne, St Clair, Genesse and Saginaw all run similiar. From reading and talking to people for over 9 years on boards, Bay County runs about the same as the ones I listed, as well as Midland. This side of the state is pretty close in the courts as far as decisions, they all use close standard parenting plans. Bay County has little online, however some of these others I listed have long distance plans and information such as FOC handbooks, procedures to the court. I know Genesse and St Clair have long distance plans online, Saginaw and Midland might. Genesse's regular parenting plan, has ideas based on ages and has ideas if one has had a constant relationship or little time relationship with the child. St Clair also has real good parenting plans online, you can look at both standard and long distance in that county. If you have trouble finding any of these let me know and I can get you links.

Bay County court is small, runs more like Midland, Saginaw, Genesse and St Clair. These smaller courts have FOC and Refs doing more, less burden on the few Judges they have. You stand a higher chance of the Ref taking more time and doing a bit of mediation. The Judges I have seen in these smaller courts also seem to take more time to hear the case then the bigger courts.

All the courts I have listed, love when a party comes in with ideas of parenting plans.
Make yourself an ideal parenting plan for the situation, then write down things that your willing to compromise on in that ideal plan. Add your ideas of ways your willing to work with dad that will make this less costly, and easier for him. Stress your goal is that he and child get a strong relationship. Offer times for skype sessions, even though dad has not wanted to do these, these courts above love skype for long distance and they put it in orders left and right, even when one party does not want to do them.

I don't know if you have to notify the court that you have retained counsel, that's a question you can ask the county circuit court clerk's office or the lawyer themselves would know that. I would for sure see if you can get a few phone consults with that lawyer, worth for their hourly rates. Just to get procedures for the court and get some info on the Ref and I would also get some info on the Judge to. They can tell you how they run their hearings and what they tend to do in certain situations. If you don't take a lawyer, remember you can always object to the Ref recommendation and hire a lawyer for the next hearing. That lawyer can get the transcripts of the Ref hearing prior to the Judges hearing.

The lawyers all refer to the Ref, as "Referee last name".

Again, I can't thank you all enough for the invaluable information you've provided me, it's very much appreciated.

I can say the judge for our divorce proceedings was very involved even though we arrived with an decree we had both previously signed and agreed upon. My only concern was the fact that he question my ex husband multiple times on his sincerity in agreement of the specifics of the decree, because I had representation and he didn't. I COMPLETELY understand where the judge was coming from, ensuring I didn't bully or strong arm my ex into anything he didn't legitimately agree to. However, this is where my hesitation came from in retaining a lawyer for representation this time, because I didn't want to seem like I was trying to bully him into anything by retaining a lawyer knowing he wouldn't be.

I appreciate your insight on the different sites to get parenting plan ideas. I've used the Bay County friend of the court site, and actually one or two of the other counties you've mentioned to modify our agreement in the past, as well as to get the paperwork for the motion this time around. I will definitely come prepared with options. Luckily the truth of the matter is I want our daughter to have a relationship with her father, I just think it's in her best interest to be protected in the event he decides to continue not having a relationship with her. If he's willing to work together to solve the problem that's been created, I'm more than willing to continue facilitating that relationship. Regardless of my feelings about my ex, our daughter deserves the opportunity to have a relationship with her father, and until she's old enough to pursue that on her own I am willing to facilitate his efforts if he decides to make them.

Thank you again, so very much. I can't express how helpful you've all been. I will continue to keep you updated with my progress and any questions I have.

I can't thank you all enough, I'm definitely glad I decided to come on here and ask my questions well enough in advance of the hearing that I can use the sound advice I've received and also consult with an attorney. Again, thank you so very much!


ETA: I've found a local Bay County attorney that is more than willing to bill hourly for phone consultations to prepare me for the hearing!