Unwed father-to-be part 2

[longislandguy]

Simple time sharing, Step up plan for NY

Birth - 3 months: Every other day for 4 hours and additional time as agreed by both parents
3 months - 1 year: Monday & Wednesday & Friday 4hrs and Saturdays from 10am- Sunday 10am
1-3 years: Every other weekend Friday 5pm - Monday 9am Dinners Every Tuesday 5pm-9pm
3-5 years: Every Monday 12pm - Wednesday 12pm and Every other weekend Friday 12pm - Monday12pm

Make sure you include a Right of First Refusal so you have rights over the day care mother is using, AND a transportation clause, "The parent receiving the child for their parenting time shall be responsible for picking up the child", this puts the responsiblity on both parents, within just a few months it will be obvious which parent really cares about spending time with their kid, give it a couple months and mom will be complaining about the drive all the time, eventually the kids will just move in with you because mom won't drive

 

[Proserpina]

Simple time sharing, Step up plan for NY

Birth - 3 months: Every other day for 4 hours and additional time as agreed by both parents
3 months - 1 year: Monday & Wednesday & Friday 4hrs and Saturdays from 10am- Sunday 10am
1-3 years: Every other weekend Friday 5pm - Monday 9am Dinners Every Tuesday 5pm-9pm
3-5 years: Every Monday 12pm - Wednesday 12pm and Every other weekend Friday 12pm - Monday12pm

Make sure you include a Right of First Refusal so you have rights over the day care mother is using, AND a transportation clause, "The parent receiving the child for their parenting time shall be responsible for picking up the child", this puts the responsiblity on both parents, within just a few months it will be obvious which parent really cares about spending time with their kid, give it a couple months and mom will be complaining about the drive all the time, eventually the kids will just move in with you because mom won't drive

Are you sure that ROFR will apply in a daycare situation?

Because in many instances, it doesn't...

 

[longislandguy]

Are you sure that ROFR will apply in a daycare situation?

Because in many instances, it doesn't...

You have to write the ROFR to specifically include the day care if it doesn't.....A simple ROFR something like i have "In the event that either parent intends to leave the child for a period of six (6) hours or longer, or overnight, that parent shall first offer the other parent an opportunity for additional time with the child, before making arrangements for child’s temporary care."

No mention of day care, or ANY other options except the other parent, the 6 hour thing is just a guideline, you could set pretty much(within reason, don't try to slip 45 minutes though)any time frame you want.

Don't forget, this is for NY, there are no standard plans here, you write your order with EXACTLY what you want it to say and it means exactly what you write.

 

[Proserpina]

You have to write the ROFR to specifically include the day care if it doesn't.....A simple ROFR something like i have "In the event that either parent intends to leave the child for a period of six (6) hours or longer, or overnight, that parent shall first offer the other parent an opportunity for additional time with the child, before making arrangements for child’s temporary care."

No mention of day care, or ANY other options except the other parent, the 6 hour thing is just a guideline, you could set pretty much(within reason, don't try to slip 45 minutes though)any time frame you want.

Don't forget, this is for NY, there are no standard plans here, you write your order with EXACTLY what you want it to say and it means exactly what you write.

And the reason you believe the other parent would agree to this is...what again?

 

[Proserpina]

Simple time sharing, Step up plan for NY

Birth - 3 months: Every other day for 4 hours and additional time as agreed by both parents
3 months - 1 year: Monday & Wednesday & Friday 4hrs and Saturdays from 10am- Sunday 10am
1-3 years: Every other weekend Friday 5pm - Monday 9am Dinners Every Tuesday 5pm-9pm
3-5 years: Every Monday 12pm - Wednesday 12pm and Every other weekend Friday 12pm - Monday12pm

Make sure you include a Right of First Refusal so you have rights over the day care mother is using, AND a transportation clause, "The parent receiving the child for their parenting time shall be responsible for picking up the child", this puts the responsiblity on both parents, within just a few months it will be obvious which parent really cares about spending time with their kid, give it a couple months and mom will be complaining about the drive all the time, eventually the kids will just move in with you because mom won't drive

This is actually comically funny.

Patently false, but funny in its absolute wrong-ness.

 

[TheGeekess]

Simple time sharing, Step up plan for NY

Birth - 3 months: Every other day for 4 hours and additional time as agreed by both parents
3 months - 1 year: Monday & Wednesday & Friday 4hrs and Saturdays from 10am- Sunday 10am
1-3 years: Every other weekend Friday 5pm - Monday 9am Dinners Every Tuesday 5pm-9pm
3-5 years: Every Monday 12pm - Wednesday 12pm and Every other weekend Friday 12pm - Monday12pm

Make sure you include a Right of First Refusal so you have rights over the day care mother is using, AND a transportation clause, "The parent receiving the child for their parenting time shall be responsible for picking up the child", this puts the responsiblity on both parents, within just a few months it will be obvious which parent really cares about spending time with their kid, give it a couple months and mom will be complaining about the drive all the time, eventually the kids will just move in with you because mom won't drive

You have to write the ROFR to specifically include the day care if it doesn't.....A simple ROFR something like i have "In the event that either parent intends to leave the child for a period of six (6) hours or longer, or overnight, that parent shall first offer the other parent an opportunity for additional time with the child, before making arrangements for child’s temporary care."

No mention of day care, or ANY other options except the other parent, the 6 hour thing is just a guideline, you could set pretty much(within reason, don't try to slip 45 minutes though)any time frame you want.

Don't forget, this is for NY, there are no standard plans here, you write your order with EXACTLY what you want it to say and it means exactly what you write.

Pray tell, how did yours go again? Oh, yes, you didn't get your 50-50. Very likely you won't, either.

 

[longislandguy]

Pray tell, how did yours go again? Oh, yes, you didn't get your 50-50. Very likely you won't, either.

I didn't have someone like me to help, at that point everyone i talked to said things like "Fathers only get EOW" or "Just be happy you aren't giving your whole paycheck in child support and take any time they'll give you". Basically telling me there is no hope and to give in. I went through a DEEP DEEP Depression right after the custody hearing, falling into a state when life just didn't matter anymore,without daughter in my life i felt like less then a person.

Thats why i'm such a pain about things like this, i was really hurt by not having a 'friend in the know', i don't want anyone to have to go through what i did! I was close to suicide at a couple points.

Now that i've personally been through the system i know better, i was just able to flip my 18-20% visitation to 40-45% parenting time!

 

[Silverplum]

I didn't have someone like me to help, at that point everyone i talked to said things like "Fathers only get EOW" or "Just be happy you aren't giving your whole paycheck in child support and take any time they'll give you". Basically telling me there is no hope and to give in. I went through a DEEP DEEP Depression right after the custody hearing, falling into a state when life just didn't matter anymore,without daughter in my life i felt like less then a person.

Thats why i'm such a pain about things like this, i was really hurt by not having a 'friend in the know', i don't want anyone to have to go through what i did! I was close to suicide at a couple points.

Now that i've personally been through the system i know better, i was just able to flip my 18-20% visitation to 40-45% parenting time!

How would you have felt if your "friend" misled you? You've done that, in your overly aggressive "input" here.

Be accurate, not passionate.

 

[longislandguy]

How would you have felt if your "friend" misled you? You've done that, in your overly aggressive "input" here.

Be accurate, not passionate.

You can't get what you don't ask for....I tell fathers to START negotiations at 50/50, that's what this father is asking, not what negotions will end at, we can't know that, but what to START negotiations at. If they settle at 3 on/4 off or even EOW that happens, BUT if you start at EOW, you have no 'sway' no room for negotiations at all and you completely miss the opportunity for 50/50 or 3on/4 off. If you are asking for 50/50 and your ex is insisting on EOW, you are much more likely to ATLEAST end up at 3 on/4 off, but if you ask for EOW, you will NEVER get more time with your child then that.

You see, NY is more focused on the parents 'settling' on a plan vs going to trial and the judge 'ordering' one, I've been through 3 modifications and 1 custody hearing and i've never been to 'trial' and NOW know many other fathers in NY who haven't. Part of the reason that they don't have a standard plan is because they've found the most effective plans are those that both parents can agree upon. That agreement is dependent on both parents ending up compromising.

I mean really, when buying a car do you walk in saying "I'll only pay $1,000 over sticker" or do you walk in with your lowest offer "2,500 below sticker" and negotiate? That's only for a car, your relationship with your child is infinitely more important then that! That's why i believe all advice should be to "Start negotiations at 50/50"

 

[Ladyback1]

I didn't have someone like me to help, at that point everyone i talked to said things like "Fathers only get EOW" or "Just be happy you aren't giving your whole paycheck in child support and take any time they'll give you". Basically telling me there is no hope and to give in. I went through a DEEP DEEP Depression right after the custody hearing, falling into a state when life just didn't matter anymore,without daughter in my life i felt like less then a person.

Thats why i'm such a pain about things like this, i was really hurt by not having a 'friend in the know', i don't want anyone to have to go through what i did! I was close to suicide at a couple points.

Now that i've personally been through the system i know better, i was just able to flip my 18-20% visitation to 40-45% parenting time!

All discussion about visitation/custody aside: You needed then, just like you need now some counseling/therapy.

I love my kids and would fight tooth and nail for them---but consider suicide? You're either very melodramatic, or you have some serious issues, and you cannot be an effective parent with those sort of issues!

 

[longislandguy]

All discussion about visitation/custody aside: You needed then, just like you need now some counseling/therapy.

I love my kids and would fight tooth and nail for them---but consider suicide? You're either very melodramatic, or you have some serious issues, and you cannot be an effective parent with those sort of issues!

I had those issue BECAUSE I wasn't able to be an effective parent.....I think you may sing a different story if you had your child ripped away from you and your dreams of being a father/mother to that child shot down....Being told, you were 'lucky to have even that'

I'm fine now, 40-45% custody means i AM able to parent now. I can do all of those things that make someone a parent, homework, dinners, school projects, extra curriculars, NOT be ignored by teachers/school admins, set bedtimes, arrange play dates, etc.....Being a 'disney dad' is about the most depressing thing anyone who ACTUALLY cares about their children can be, Parenting isn't the fun stuff, I don't see how anyone can be an effective parent 2 nights out of 14

We've gone quite a bit off topic, but imo, these are still things the OP should think about....Does he REALLY want to settle for only being a 'Disney Dad'?

 

[brandnew1]

I don't want to be a 'disney dad' at all, which is why I'm going through these lengths to find out information. It's unfortunate because mom is definitely going to fight me every step of the way. She was hoping I would just go away when she stopped talking to me during her pregnancy. She cut off all communication with me and may have assumed I would just let it be so she could play house with her new boyfriend. This isn't me trying to gain sympathy, it's just me explaining that she is not going to be reasonable. I disrupted her happy fantasy family and she's bitter and resentful about that.

It's too bad that everyone is ripping on Long Island guy for his proposed plan, because that obviously seems like a dream. But again, I want to find the line between realistic and aggressive here. I think the distance thing is being slightly overblown- it's not as if we live in different states. She lives in a rural area where traffic is not really a huge concern so that hour travel time between the two houses isn't too terrible. But don't get me wrong, I realize it is a factor.

As far as moving closer to my daughter in the future... that is definitely in my plans. I have already looked into internships and job postings closer to her. It is not in the cards right now because I live at home with my mother and I'm finishing up my undergraduate degree.

I can't say I agree that a child spending 8 hours at daycare is less traumatic than spending 8 hours with her father, considering how newborns at cared for at most in-home daycares, but I understand the logic and if that's how the court sees it I will have no choice.

I have reached out to the mother to see if we can start talking about a parenting plan and she seems unwilling. Specifically, she's just being vague saying she's too busy for at least the next three weeks to find time for it. It seems like I can file it without her consent, but she will absolutely object to ANYTHING I request. It just seems to be her nature. At that point, could the judge overrule her if he deems my plan acceptable? Probably not. He would just order some sort of mediation is my guess.

I was told by a lawyer during a consultation that a lot of these cases end up in front of a referee, and the referee tends to propose something with absolutely minimal access to the father. He said demanding to have the case heard in front of a judge usually ends up being more beneficial to the father. I don't know how accurate that is, though.

Realistically, based on the information I have given, when do you think the SOONEST I can take the baby to my town is, even if it's only for a few hours. Furthermore, when is the SOONEST I can start getting her overnight once a week or (and I hate to say this because it seems so insignificant) once every other week.

I mean, if the only way I can see her is through driving to spend time with her, mom, and mom's boyfriend at the house for a few hours I'll do it. But that is an absolute nightmare scenario for me (I know the courts don't factor that into consideration)

 

[LdiJ]

I don't want to be a 'disney dad' at all, which is why I'm going through these lengths to find out information. It's unfortunate because mom is definitely going to fight me every step of the way. She was hoping I would just go away when she stopped talking to me during her pregnancy. She cut off all communication with me and may have assumed I would just let it be so she could play house with her new boyfriend. This isn't me trying to gain sympathy, it's just me explaining that she is not going to be reasonable. I disrupted her happy fantasy family and she's bitter and resentful about that.

That's honestly not all that unusual.

It's too bad that everyone is ripping on Long Island guy for his proposed plan, because that obviously seems like a dream. But again, I want to find the line between realistic and aggressive here. I think the distance thing is being slightly overblown- it's not as if we live in different states. She lives in a rural area where traffic is not really a huge concern so that hour travel time between the two houses isn't too terrible. But don't get me wrong, I realize it is a factor.

If you understood his history and his total lack of understanding about how family law works you would not be so surprised. The drive itself is not the problem, its what it would end up costing in the long term. Also, once the child starts school that would be 4 hours of driving a day. That's about a tank of gas a day. Can you afford that?

As far as moving closer to my daughter in the future... that is definitely in my plans. I have already looked into internships and job postings closer to her. It is not in the cards right now because I live at home with my mother and I'm finishing up my undergraduate degree.

However that really is the best way to get more time, sooner.

I can't say I agree that a child spending 8 hours at daycare is less traumatic than spending 8 hours with her father, considering how newborns at cared for at most in-home daycares, but I understand the logic and if that's how the court sees it I will have no choice.

Nobody said anything about trauma. The discussion was about bonding.

I have reached out to the mother to see if we can start talking about a parenting plan and she seems unwilling. Specifically, she's just being vague saying she's too busy for at least the next three weeks to find time for it. It seems like I can file it without her consent, but she will absolutely object to ANYTHING I request. It just seems to be her nature. At that point, could the judge overrule her if he deems my plan acceptable? Probably not. He would just order some sort of mediation is my guess.

Yes, judges typically order you to mediation first. However, it is good to put together a comprehensive and reasonable phased in plan to present. If yours is reasonable and mom's is not. Yours might just get signed off on by the judge.

I was told by a lawyer during a consultation that a lot of these cases end up in front of a referee, and the referee tends to propose something with absolutely minimal access to the father. He said demanding to have the case heard in front of a judge usually ends up being more beneficial to the father. I don't know how accurate that is, though.

A local attorney generally knows more than we would about the climates of the local courts.

Realistically, based on the information I have given, when do you think the SOONEST I can take the baby to my town is, even if it's only for a few hours. Furthermore, when is the SOONEST I can start getting her overnight once a week or (and I hate to say this because it seems so insignificant) once every other week.

It could take six months or more depending on how backed up your local courts are...and a few months after that before overnights.

I mean, if the only way I can see her is through driving to spend time with her, mom, and mom's boyfriend at the house for a few hours I'll do it. But that is an absolute nightmare scenario for me (I know the courts don't factor that into consideration)

Its very likely that it will be the only way you get to see the baby until you can get a court date and get in front of a judge.

 

[longislandguy]

OP what county in NY are you in? Most of my experience is in Nassau and Suffolk county, but have a few friends who have dealt with other county....though nothing really UPstate.

My two most recent modification hearings were in front of a referee. He was pushing hard for us to come to an agreement, he was not happy that mom didn't want to agree to anything! Mom and I came to an agreement RIGHT AFTER he threatened her with "forensics and probation reports if we aren't settled" by the next court date.

If the mom won't agree with ANY time for you and YOU have a well written out stipulation to hand over to the judge.....That is a good thing, i've been told by every lawyer "The less work for the judge the better off you are"

My plan was a great starting point for negotiations, if you notice, no one really ripped the plan, it's a good solid plan, they just don't like ME....If mom is unwilling to negotiate at all and it's the ONLY plan on the table.....It's the best option i'd want to put infront of a judge for a newborn

 

[LdiJ]

You tried to say that we just don't like you, but liked your plan. You are completely wrong.

Simple time sharing, Step up plan for NY

Birth - 3 months: Every other day for 4 hours and additional time as agreed by both parents
3 months - 1 year: Monday & Wednesday & Friday 4hrs and Saturdays from 10am- Sunday 10am

These two phases could only work if the parents are on different works schedules. Otherwise, there isn't even 4 hours available on a weekday evening if the baby is going to be put to bed at a reasonable hour...and if somehow it could be squeezed out, if would be more than 50% of the child's non-sleeping time. Plus, you would never get into court fast enough for the first phase to ever happen, and its iffy on the bulk of the second phase.

1-3 years: Every other weekend Friday 5pm - Monday 9am Dinners Every Tuesday 5pm-9pm

That one works except the 9pm return on Tuesday. That is too late.

3-5 years: Every Monday 12pm - Wednesday 12pm and Every other weekend Friday 12pm - Monday12pm

That's not going to happen in most states unless both parent's agree...and the exchange times are not workable for any working parents.

Make sure you include a Right of First Refusal so you have rights over the day care mother is using,

He can try...its not a given.

AND a transportation clause, "The parent receiving the child for their parenting time shall be responsible for picking up the child", this puts the responsiblity on both parents, within just a few months it will be obvious which parent really cares about spending time with their kid, give it a couple months and mom will be complaining about the drive all the time, eventually the kids will just move in with you because mom won't drive

That is an absolutely absurd statement.

Also, since you were on hear just last week or so trying to figure out if your new schedule was 35% or 40% you, its more than a little bit silly for you to now try to describe your schedule as 40-45%.