Update with questions

[Zephyr]

It is a matter of semantics, it is the same order being modified in order to clarify it's intent so it can be enforced.

If it happened last time you asked, I doubt the hearing officer will see it differently, your children are older now, so why should they have less voice?

It is your belief that your boys have been alienated, apparently they are not unhappy with the current arrangement. Have you asked them how they feel about you? Perhaps they have their reasons for their beliefs that are entirely their own? If the judge orders counseling, that is one thing, remember you can drag a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You time to act was when you gave your ex custody 6 years ago.

the thing about your statement here rmet is- are children who ARE in fact successfully alienated from one of their parents unhappy with the situation? not really, they generally have adopted the alienating parents viewpoint and attitudes towards the other parent....regardless of the facts of the situation....and I don't think she has had an opportunity to ask the boys how they really feel because she has not seen them in over a year and a half, and dad has also denied phone contact

 

[lisagr33]

the thing about your statement here rmet is- are children who ARE in fact successfully alienated from one of their parents unhappy with the situation? not really, they generally have adopted the alienating parents viewpoint and attitudes towards the other parent....regardless of the facts of the situation....and I don't think she has had an opportunity to ask the boys how they really feel because she has not seen them in over a year and a half, and dad has also denied phone contact

I have to agree with this. How can she ask if dad has denied telephone contact?

 

[SITLYNNE]

It is a matter of semantics, it is the same order being modified in order to clarify it's intent so it can be enforced.

Not following this, sorry.

If it happened last time you asked, I doubt the hearing officer will see it differently, your children are older now, so why should they have less voice?

Because after our last conference, I had many conversations with my oldest, the only one who would speak to the Officer, and digital recorded him admitting he had lied, been bribed, coached, and was told to make things up about me and told to add to any story he could think of to make me look bad. He had admitted this to me, my mom, and my boyfriend, at different times, and all were recorded. My atty listened to this 3 hour tape and said the judge may or may not listen to it if we pushed the case to trial. So, I'm thinking my atty should adress these issues with the Officer beforehand. I do not think my son should be allowed to lie about me anymore because he has been brainwashed and bribed.


It is your belief that your boys have been alienated, apparently they are not unhappy with the current arrangement. Have you asked them how they feel about you? Perhaps they have their reasons for their beliefs that are entirely their own? If the judge orders counseling, that is one thing, remember you can drag a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You time to act was when you gave your ex custody 6 years ago.

Obviously you do not agree with PAS, I do not believe my boys have been alienated, I know they have and so does my atty. Nope, they are not unhappy with the current arrangement. I hope the judge is unhappy with dads ability to coparent and keep me involved with the boys' lives and an active mother instead of moving his new wife into the mom position and having them call me by my first name. I want him to explain to the judge how this was in the boys' best interests.
Nope, I know all their beliefs are their fathers and all the accusations I've been accused of are false and I have proof of that fact.
I'm very afraid my oldest can not be made to drink the water, but I hold out hope for the youngest.

For the record, we had shared joint custody, 50/50 physical for 4 years until dad decided he needed full custody to collect child support from me. Stated it in court.
I did not give him custody 6 years ago, I conceeded to an order that I didn't agree with on April 1, 2004. Dad has not followed that order since the day the judge signed it, surprise, surprise.

 

[Zephyr]

will your attorney be requesting temp orders right away? or a graduated reunification schedule?

 

[SITLYNNE]

will your attorney be requesting temp orders right away? or a graduated reunification schedule?

Really don't know, didn't ask him. He did state that he is asking for counseling to begin immediately and that visitation begin immediately. I told him I'm scared with that second part because of the hostility, therego the counseling, family. So, dunno.
He said he's asking for it anyway, even if visits take place with the counselor at first.

 

[Zephyr]

Really don't know, didn't ask him. He did state that he is asking for counseling to begin immediately and that visitation begin immediately. I told him I'm scared with that second part because of the hostility, therego the counseling, family. So, dunno.
He said he's asking for it anyway, even if visits take place with the counselor at first.

well that's good, if the children can get back to visiting you and forming their own opinions they may not be singing dad's "party line" when they actually get to speak with someone from the court

 

[SITLYNNE]

well that's good, if the children can get back to visiting you and forming their own opinions they may not be singing dad's "party line" when they actually get to speak with someone from the court

Exactly, but from what RMet had to say, I'm thinking she's saying I've just wasted my retainer money and there is no hope left.

In other words, everyone here who told me not to give up over a year ago was wrong. Because, now I'm fighting back with the court and now she's coming back saying I don't stand a chance to make the boys visit me or get in counseling.
Which is it anyway?

Do they have a choice at ages 16 and 11? I was told they have a choice where to live but not whether to visit the other parent.

Seems like a double edged knife to me.

Because dads getting away with both, even though my atty says he can't, RMet just insinuated that he most certainly can, and if the boys aren't unhappy with the current arrangement, let it alone. So, I was right, technically I have no rights at all, no say, just keep on paying to support them all the while they're being alienated from me and 'think' it's for their best interests because dad said so.

 

[lisagr33]

Exactly, but from what RMet had to say, I'm thinking she's saying I've just wasted my retainer money and there is no hope left.

In other words, everyone here who told me not to give up over a year ago was wrong. Because, now I'm fighting back with the court and now she's coming back saying I don't stand a chance to make the boys visit me or get in counseling.
Which is it anyway?

Do they have a choice at ages 16 and 11? I was told they have a choice where to live but not whether to visit the other parent.

Seems like a double edged knife to me.

Because dads getting away with both, even though my atty says he can't, RMet just insinuated that he most certainly can, and if the boys aren't unhappy with the current arrangement, let it alone. So, I was right, technically I have no rights at all, no say, just keep on paying to support them all the while they're being alienated from me and 'think' it's for their best interests because dad said so.

Look, I think that any NCP, no matter how long it has been since losing custody, has the right to fight to get the court order that was set in place to be followed. I don't think that you are wasting your money for the retainer. Trust in your lawyer. As for the choices for them, they have a voice of where they want to live but as far as a choice on visitation with the other parent, no they don't have a choice. The CP has to make them available for the visitation without interferring. The fact, from what I have seen in your other threads, is that because the court order for visitation is so liberal in that both parties have to agree upon the visitation time, dad is taking advantage of that. I hope that you can get a more set visitation schedule and quick.

 

[SITLYNNE]

Look, I think that any NCP, no matter how long it has been since losing custody, has the right to fight to get the court order that was set in place to be followed. I don't think that you are wasting your money for the retainer. Trust in your lawyer. As for the choices for them, they have a voice of where they want to live but as far as a choice on visitation with the other parent, no they don't have a choice. The CP has to make them available for the visitation without interferring. The fact, from what I have seen in your other threads, is that because the court order for visitation is so liberal in that both parties have to agree upon the visitation time, dad is taking advantage of that. I hope that you can get a more set visitation schedule and quick.

It's been less than 2 years, and all the while I've documented all my fruitless attempts with this moron. He is in control and following his attys advice to omit me from their life, in his words, of course. He is doing nothing wrong. He is only protecting 'his' children from me. Why? He doesn't know. Doesn't have a grain of anything on me except for lies, of course.
I do trust my lawyer, and he's not happy. He truly felt this current order would allow extra time above the standard visitation order, something we all discussed, including the boys, at the conference. So, he feels I've been taken from the start.
Ex says he's not keeping them from me, just following what they want, no visits, no contact.
How can this be viewed as coparenting and how can he be exercising the joint legal custody when he takes me off their school records and lists his wife as their mother, and refuses to provide me with any medical info, stating all along, his atty is instructing him to do these things?

 

[Zephyr]

It's been less than 2 years, and all the while I've documented all my fruitless attempts with this moron. He is in control and following his attys advice to omit me from their life, in his words, of course. He is doing nothing wrong. He is only protecting 'his' children from me. Why? He doesn't know. Doesn't have a grain of anything on me except for lies, of course.
I do trust my lawyer, and he's not happy. He truly felt this current order would allow extra time above the standard visitation order, something we all discussed, including the boys, at the conference. So, he feels I've been taken from the start.
Ex says he's not keeping them from me, just following what they want, no visits, no contact.
How can this be viewed as coparenting and how can he be exercising the joint legal custody when he takes me off their school records and lists his wife as their mother, and refuses to provide me with any medical info, stating all along, his atty is instructing him to do these things?

you did get copies of those documents right?

 

[SITLYNNE]

you did get copies of those documents right?

Absolutely. In the mothers spot, her name is listed. At the bottom of every page where it asks for mothers siggy, she signed her name.
She is listed as first person to contact in case of emergency, then her brother next, (the boys' godfather, I'm cool with him, we still talk privately, actually still talk with her whole family, but she doesn't know), then dad is listed as third. I'm nowhere to be found on any of their school records.

 

[lisagr33]

I don't know if it his attorney making him do these things as much as it might be his new wife and/or mother. The fact that he is violating the court order is bad enough but to sit there and lie and say he is not keeping them from you is just wrong. To me, and again this is just my opinion since I am not a lawyer, there is strong PAS here.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Obviously you do not agree with PAS, I do not believe my boys have been alienated, I know they have and so does my atty. Nope, they are not unhappy with the current arrangement. I hope the judge is unhappy with dads ability to coparent and keep me involved with the boys' lives and an active mother instead of moving his new wife into the mom position and having them call me by my first name. I want him to explain to the judge how this was in the boys' best interests.
Nope, I know all their beliefs are their fathers and all the accusations I've been accused of are false and I have proof of that fact.
I'm very afraid my oldest can not be made to drink the water, but I hold out hope for the youngest.

For the record, we had shared joint custody, 50/50 physical for 4 years until dad decided he needed full custody to collect child support from me. Stated it in court.
I did not give him custody 6 years ago, I conceeded to an order that I didn't agree with on April 1, 2004. Dad has not followed that order since the day the judge signed it, surprise, surprise.

Here is your first thread here, while you were looking for sympathy, you were given specific advice from a member of the forum who is an attorney on how to file pro se to modify the orders. Your children are old enough to call you on their own if they want. What I am saying is that you have to be realistic about your expected outcome. Last year you wanted to terminate your parental rights to get out of paying child support, that's what brought you here.

Reality.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=218468

What is the name of your state?pennsylvania

I need to know what I can do to relinquish my parental rights of my 2 sons. I do not have much money so I'm hoping I can do this without an attorney. After sharing custody with their father for 4 years and receiving partial child support for only 1 1/2 of those years, their father convinced my sons that they were old enough (14 and 9) to choose where to live and because he remarried 2 weeks after the divorce was final (my best friend and god mother to my sons) that he had a more stable home and they would have more money at his house if he didn't have to pay child support anymore. He bribed them with cell phones, four wheelers, playstations, fixing up their old cars, an inground swimming pool,etc. They received everything he bribed them with. He claimed my home was unstable because I didn't remarry and had broken up with a four year live-in boyfriend. The breakup was mutual and very friendly. We tried many times to work it out with no luck. My sons loved him and wanted us to marry. After the final breakup, their father filed for full custody on the grounds that my sons shouldn't be in a single parent home where the parent is planning to date. I fought until the final court appearance in front of the big judge, when I ran out of money, and my oldest told the consiliator and the lawyers he was telling the judge he wanted to live with dad. The consiliator recommended I give custody to dad for a one year trial until I setteled down. Crazy, since I dont' drink, smoke, do drugs( never have) work 3 jobs ( only when sons are with dad) keep home in perfect condition, attend all functions, and participate in all activities. I was cubscout leader for 10 years, baseball team mom, childcare provider licensed in my home for 12 years, band booster member, band chaparone, etc. My sons told me they would not change their minds unless I didn't date until they left, or married my ex-boyfriend. This was out of the question. I married their dad, my first boyfriend, and had only been with last boyfriend. I was ready to date. I signed over full custody 12 hours before the big court hearing. That night both sons cried they wanted it changed back. That very day, even though he said he never would, the father went directly to domestic relations and filed for support. I almost had to move out of state with family in order to survive. I now pay him more than I received from him. He makes 2 times more than I do and together the household brings in over $100,000. I am trying to live off of less than $20,000. I ended up with partial custody-order reads father has physical custody-mother partial with liberal visitation based on both parents agreement. Needless to say, even though both sons said they wanted to see me as often as usual, this only lasted until the domestic hearing where the only question dad asked was how many nights could the sons sleep at moms house and he continue getting support. He immediately cut visits back big time. I became his convenient babysitter. After voicing my thoughts on this, visits stopped completely for a while. I found a new boyfriend who eventually moved himself and son into my home. My sons didn't take well to this. They now claim not to like someone they don't even know. I attended all their events my jobs would allow throughout this and was not even allowed to approach them. I kept phone conversations to at least 3 times per week and continually invited them to come over. They were invited to all holidays, and all summer camping trips. Everyone were refused. I have not seen them in my home in over 9 months. They have never called one time. My phone calls and messages are never returned and if I'm lucky I can catch my oldest right after school and talk for only 5 minutes until his dad gets home. The youngest will not even come to the phone. He is mad (as told by his brother) because their dad told him I abandoned them by leaving him 5 years ago after finding out about his affair and also I have not made every baseball and football game due to work and he wants his toys from my house which I refuse ( hoping for them to come back someday) I spoke with my oldest last week and asked him if he was happy with the arrangement this past year because I'm not. He says he doesn't want to discuss it. I told him the trial year is almost up and things are getting worse. I expressed my wishes to see them and he only says he doesn't want to get into it. He also expresses he doesn't want to be "around my home and around that sort of thing". He has heard many untrue and bad things from dad about me and my new boyfriend. I am giving up hope. I am very frustrated. They don't even call me mom anymore.They call me by my first name and stepmom is now mom. They will not tell me they miss me or love me. What can I do?
Brokenhearted by sons

 

[SITLYNNE]

I don't know if it his attorney making him do these things as much as it might be his new wife and/or mother. The fact that he is violating the court order is bad enough but to sit there and lie and say he is not keeping them from you is just wrong. To me, and again this is just my opinion since I am not a lawyer, there is strong PAS here.

I want so bad to say that to him in front of his atty at the conference, when it comes out, oh, he said that you, his atty, were advising him to do these things and telling him he's doing nothing wrong.

My atty also agrees there is PAS and hopes that the Custody Officer and the judge believes there is PAS.

 

[FrustratedMommy]

Thats kinda low.

First off she came to this site, knowing nothing of the legal system and asked a question. Reality is often harsh I realize that but, the comments were a bit over the top.

Second why are you bringing this up? Obviously shes gotten past that stage and LEARNED her rights and what shes entitled to, and now she wants it.

I think someone needs to grow up honestly.